[mike777]

We disagreed
Imps

1d=3h=x

x is forcing to what in your favourite partnership?

[nickf]

mike777, on Jun 25 2005, 05:42 AM, said:

x is forcing to what in your favourite partnership?

I don't really understand the problem here, mike.

Presumably X is negative, which, of course, partner can pass if their hand is suitable. So in that sense it's not forcing.

Are you suggesting opener's simple response of, say, 3S to the double should be forcing?

If I suggested X should be forcing in my favourite partnership I'd quickly be in the market for a new partner.

nickf
sydney

[mike777]

ok over 3s p bid 4d which is forcing to what?

[the hog]

Forcing to 4D, in other words nf.

[bearmum]

mike777, on Jun 25 2005, 06:42 PM, said:

This seems to be a short but productive partnership breaker.
We disagreed on some but I guess this one was too much.
Imps

1d=3h=x

x is forcing to what in your favourite partnership?

in my partnership is NF

[paulg]

mike777, on Jun 25 2005, 08:42 AM, said:

ok over 3s p  bid 4d which is forcing to what?

Presumably partner was angling for 3NT, so must be showing a hand of opening strength or more. However he could also have bid 4♥ twice now, so I think it is highly encouraging but non-forcing - perhaps a good hand with 2 small hearts.

I'd expect to bid on with shorter hearts or good controls.

p

[luke warm]

i play nfb, so my take is different from most posting here.. the original x shows 9-11/12 and guarantees 4+ spades OR it's game forcing... any bid by opener can be passed if the first.. if partner bids 3s and responder now bids 4d, i play this as game force... the original x showed 12+ in that case

[mike777]

Ok, if you play x and rebid of 4d as nonforce rather than pick a game then I guess you need to play x and rebid of 4clubs as pick a game.

[luke warm]

i'm sorry mike, i misread your hand/question.. if

1d (3h) x (p) 3s then 4d ... the x (this is my way of thinking only) should either be negative, showing spades and maybe clubs, and strength to play at the 3 level, or a game force... the 4d bid tells me that responder has 4 spades, diamond support, and game force strength, and asks you to choose...

bergen says (i think, i'll have to look) that nfb is only on at the 2 and 3 levels.. a 4 level bid is forcing, so the only way to interpret 4d here is a hand showing diamonds and spades.. if 1d (3h) x (p) 3s (p) and now 4c, i'd take that as clubs and spades because an immediate forcing 4c was available

how does everyone else show a responder gf with:
1- spades and clubs
2- spades and diamonds
3- spades only
4- clubs only

[mike777]

Jlall, on Jun 26 2005, 04:08 PM, said:

i dont think you need pick a game. Responder should just...pick a game.

with 4 s and 5d and around 13-14 hcp which one?

[P_Marlowe]

mike777, on Jun 26 2005, 03:32 PM, said:

Ok, if you play x and rebid of 4d as nonforce rather than pick a game then I guess you need to play x and rebid of 4clubs as pick a game.

Hi,

since the neg. X promises only 10HCP,
4C does not create a force. Why?
Opener may still hold a minimum.

He just cant pass the Dbl and cant bid
3NT. => He needs to find a landing spot,
i.e. 4C is nonforcing.

Marlowe

[helene_t]

According to Marty Bergen, dbl primarily asks opener to bid 3NT if he has a heart stopper. So it does not imply spades. With that treatment it makes sense to play dbl as forcing to 4♦, but I'm not sure if Bergen would say that.

On the other hand, if double primarily shows spades, 3♠ by opener should not be forcing. I think this is true even if nfb applies here.

[Winstonm]

Forcing to 3H doubled in any system.

[mike777]

P_Marlowe, on Jun 27 2005, 01:58 AM, said:

mike777, on Jun 26 2005, 03:32 PM, said:

Ok, if you play x and rebid of 4d as nonforce rather than pick a game then I guess you need to play x and rebid of 4clubs as pick a game.

Hi,

since the neg. X promises only 10HCP,
4C does not create a force. Why?
Opener may still hold a minimum.

He just cant pass the Dbl and cant bid
3NT. => He needs to find a landing spot,
i.e. 4C is nonforcing.

Marlowe

responder rebids something, opener bid 3s. Responder needs to rebid over 3s...

[mike777]

Jlall, on Jun 27 2005, 12:20 PM, said:

mike777, on Jun 26 2005, 09:10 PM, said:

Jlall, on Jun 26 2005, 04:08 PM, said:

i dont think you need pick a game. Responder should just...pick a game.

with 4 s and 5d and around 13-14 hcp which one?

I pick 4S. My pard bid 3S, presumably he has spades.

KQX this time...but thanks for replies. I guess my playing any bid over 3h preempt as game forcing if partner does not pass is very unusual. I thought trying to play in 4 of minor was too rare to be winning bid to bother with but I see most if not all disagree. thanks for replies.