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Test your 1NT structure

#1 User is online   smerriman 

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Posted 2022-August-05, 16:47


You probably weren't expecting your partner to open 1NT (15-17) when you picked up this hand. How do you find out everything you need to know?
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#2 User is offline   DavidKok 

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Posted 2022-August-05, 17:17

1NT-2* club transfer;
3* (not Hxx)-3* shortness;
3NT (signoff)-4 strong slam try establishing clubs, demands that partner starts showing controls.

Not ideal with this hand, but at least partner knows to devalue KQ and I get to hear about red suit controls at the 4-level.
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#3 User is online   smerriman 

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Posted 2022-August-05, 17:41

That's exactly how I'd start too. Partner continues with 4, and you presumably bid 4. Partner doesn't have the A so bids 5 (turns out they have the K, but knowing you're short I expect it's right to skip a second round control).

5 seems the only appropriate continuation, but I always get a bit lost at this point when it comes down to a queen or jack here or there..
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#4 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2022-August-05, 19:11

I would transfer to clubs via 2/2NT, whichever you are using. Then I would use 4 as voidwood, asking for keycards outside of spades. With such strong clubs, partner is going to have a hard time cooperating with something like a small doubleton.

A quick simulation shows that a small slam makes 95% and a grand makes 58%. A few times you are missing 2 aces so should be able to stop in 5 (although sometimes NT opener has AKQ to pitch either red suit if the aces aren't cashed). Other times, small slam goes down on a ruff, or a heart through the KJ9 so the club contract plays best with the long club suit as declarer but how (Gerber anybody, but you don't need A to make a grand)?

I wouldn't be surprised if a detailed relay system would give the best results on this hand.
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#5 User is online   thepossum 

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Posted 2022-August-06, 00:22

Interesting indeed and well beyond my basic methods. I wouldn't even remember which minor transfer I'm supposed to use

After a bit of thought I went for Gerber followed by a decision on which slam. Not perfect but it could work

I know this seems very contorted but if RHO had interfered you could use Lebensohl to get clubs etc
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#6 User is offline   mw64ahw 

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Posted 2022-August-06, 00:26

I play 4-way transfers, but in this case
1NT - 2 Puppet Stayman variation
a) 2 denies 5cM - 3 6+ SI provides a good base to start looking for the controls.
b) 2 5 I have the same 3 bid, which is now initially GF. I play Kickbo so after opener's response you move directly to key card/control showing with 4 SI in this case showing an even number.
c) 2 5 then 3 shows control and invites slam. A later rebid of a control now shows the void.
d) 2NT 32 Min - 3 GF etc.
e) 3 5(332) Max
c) 3 5(332) Max
d) 3 2344 Max controls in both Majors 3 is now a SI.
e) 3 2344 Max no control
f) 3NT 2344 Max no control
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#7 User is offline   AL78 

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Posted 2022-August-06, 00:59

I play very simple methods with my primary partner so the only way I could show this hand is start with 4 (slam try with clubs) and hope that initiates a cue bidding sequence which drives us to the small or grand slam.
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#8 User is offline   paulg 

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Posted 2022-August-06, 01:33

With my regular partner I would do the same as DavidKok and smerriman. It is unsuitable for my relay methods as voids make it tricky to understand the honour structure opposite.

With my wife, I would start with a natural 3 and follow with 4 to get to a similar position although I will not have shown spade shortage.

With other club members I am largely fixed due to the prevalence of 4 being Gerber in any auction. Can we swap the minors around? Posted Image
The Beer Card

I don't work for BBO and any advice is based on my BBO experience over the decades
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#9 User is offline   DavidKok 

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Posted 2022-August-06, 02:17

View Postsmerriman, on 2022-August-05, 17:41, said:

[...] Partner doesn't have the A so bids 5 [...]
On the auction 4 should show the A and 4NT should be last train, so 5 shows a poor hand on the auction and denies the ace of hearts. Over that you can safely sign off in 6.
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#10 User is online   smerriman 

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Posted 2022-August-06, 02:34

Ah, OK, I wasn't sure on what 4NT would show. In that, assume partner bids 4NT.
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#11 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2022-August-06, 02:39

Our three-level responses might seem primitive, but they would give us a great start on this hand. 1NT-3C is natural and game forcing, allowing plenty of space to show controls.
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#12 User is offline   kgr 

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Posted 2022-August-06, 03:04

View Postsmerriman, on 2022-August-05, 17:41, said:

That's exactly how I'd start too. Partner continues with 4, and you presumably bid 4. Partner doesn't have the A so bids 5 (turns out they have the K, but knowing you're short I expect it's right to skip a second round control).

5 seems the only appropriate continuation, but I always get a bit lost at this point when it comes down to a queen or jack here or there..

Or 5? (you already denied the AK)
Then partner shows his A
And you bid 5 to show your void.
partner knows you have: void=K??=Q??=and good clubs

It is still difficult to 7 with:
Kxxx=AQx=AKxx=xx
Partner can bid 5NT now to invite 6/7?
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#13 User is offline   DavidKok 

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Posted 2022-August-06, 03:19

View Postsmerriman, on 2022-August-06, 02:34, said:

Ah, OK, I wasn't sure on what 4NT would show. In that, assume partner bids 4NT.
I'd bid 5, repeating my control (partner already knew that it is the king since I bypassed 3 so I'm not short and partner is holding the ace for the 4NT bid). This implies I'm missing second round diamond control and do have first round spade control, since I'm now forcing to 6 and trying for 7. With A, AK partner should push to 7 (I think there's enough chances for a 13th trick - queen of hearts onside or in partner's hand, establishing a long diamond in partner's hand, a ruffing finesse with KQ or a squeeze though we can't combine all of these).

On second thought 5 is better, showing first round control. 5 should probably show the heart queen as well as the king. My mistake. The rest of the inferences are still valid.
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#14 User is online   smerriman 

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Posted 2022-August-06, 03:19

View Postkgr, on 2022-August-06, 03:04, said:

Or 5? (you already denied the AK)

I don't see where we denied anything in diamonds?
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#15 User is offline   DavidKok 

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Posted 2022-August-06, 03:23

View Postkgr, on 2022-August-06, 03:04, said:

Or 5? (you already denied the AK)
Then partner shows his A
And you bid 5 to show your void.
partner knows you have: void=K??=Q??=and good clubs
We have not denied AK, and partner has already shown A. By bidding 6 we paint the picture you're looking for. Deducing that we have Q is not a given, although we do have 'extras' for trying for 7.
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#16 User is offline   kgr 

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Posted 2022-August-06, 04:35

View Postsmerriman, on 2022-August-06, 03:19, said:

I don't see where we denied anything in diamonds?

View PostDavidKok, on 2022-August-06, 03:23, said:

We have not denied AK, and partner has already shown A. By bidding 6 we paint the picture you're looking for. Deducing that we have Q is not a given, although we do have 'extras' for trying for 7.

argh...sorry
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#17 User is offline   pigpenz 

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Posted 2022-August-06, 12:05

I would play walsh transfers and show slam try hand with solid clubs
1nt 2
22 cancels transfer forces 2NT
2nt 3showing solid clubs, 3 would show broken club suit

its sort of old Max Hardy 2/1 style or Aces scientific

put into simulator
where NT opener has 2 or 3 aces
maybe HAHA gerber helps, who would have thought.

3 aces both grands are about 80%
2 aces both small slams are about the same

maybe we are being too scientific?
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#18 User is offline   Gilithin 

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Posted 2022-August-06, 16:16

I'll respond 3, setting clubs as trumps and asking partner what they think about slam. Assuming they are not enthusiastic they will bid 3 and now I ask about their hearts with 3, If partner has the A they will now show it along with other controls, if not then they bid 3NT and now I can bid 4 asking if they hold a diamond control. It is not perfect - if Opener holds AKQ Q K plus a jack or two it is tricky and requires some subtle agreements - but the approach works on the vast majority of hands in this family and is fairly simple to use.
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#19 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2022-August-06, 17:19

View Postpigpenz, on 2022-August-06, 12:05, said:

maybe we are being too scientific?

From general principles, the ability to show a solid suit is useful because in a cooperative slam try, the partner with apparently bad trump support will/should take that into account when evaluating their hand. Showing a solid suit lets partner evaluate the rest of their hand without regard to trump support.

However, if you can't show a void and ask for aces outside the void, then maybe you aren't being scientific enough IMHO.
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#20 User is offline   pigpenz 

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Posted 2022-August-06, 19:23

i was just showing what a simulator shows using that hand opposite a strong NT
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