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The Impossible Spade Not really a beginner bid but my partner bids it occasionally

#1 User is online   thepossum 

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Posted 2022-June-17, 07:06

A few times my partner has bid the impossible (two) spade. I am still confused at its use since it seemed quite a reasonable spade bid in the below hand. It confused me and I had no idea if it meant spades were good, useless, and how you know where it is forcing to

I appreciate its not really a novice and beginner topic but I'm fairly basic level and keep coming across strange bids



Can I assume in future that the impossible simply means its a reasonably natural keep bidding bid :) Maybe better named the plausible or quite reasonable spade or something like that
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#2 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2022-June-17, 07:58

When opener rebids a new suit (non-reverse), the impossible spade bid shows a good raise of opener's second suit. It is not related to spades.

I don't know what it would mean if opener rebids their suit
1-1NT
2-2
or if they reverse
1-1NT
1-2
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#3 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2022-June-17, 09:23

I think it is an N&B topic, it's useful to know what second round bids mean :)

I just call it "an impossible suit": it doesn't have to be spades, just a higher rank than opener's first suit.


View Posthelene_t, on 2022-June-17, 07:58, said:

When opener rebids a new suit (non-reverse), the impossible spade bid shows a good raise of opener's second suit. It is not related to spades.

And by inference, a rebid of opener's second suit (3 here) is a long but less inviting raise (although still forcing).

View Posthelene_t, on 2022-June-17, 07:58, said:

I don't know what it would mean if opener rebids their suit
1-1NT
2-2

Values in an invitational hand, for us.

View Posthelene_t, on 2022-June-17, 07:58, said:

or if they reverse
1-1NT
2-2

Values and forcing, for us (I corrected the insufficient bid).
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#4 User is offline   smerriman 

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Posted 2022-June-17, 13:05

The point here is that if partner has 4 spades, they would bid 1 the first time. Bidding 1nt 100% guarantees that they do not hold spades.

So if they then bid spades the next time, it's impossible that it actually shows spades, so a different meaning can be assigned to it.

Specifically, it's used when you have a maximum hand with great support for partner's minor.
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#5 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2022-June-17, 14:07

View Posthelene_t, on 2022-June-17, 07:58, said:

I don't know what it would mean if opener rebids their suit
1-1NT
2-2

I think both minors is common.

Quote

or if they reverse
1-1NT
2-2

I'd take 2 as showing a stopper, with concern about clubs. (Unless, of course, you've agreed to play 2 as Ingberman - which I am not sure is a good idea here.)
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#6 User is offline   LBengtsson 

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Posted 2022-June-17, 14:24

You got to the correct contract, but your 2 bid confused the robot, I feel.

With 6 with 3 honors, you should bid 2 not 2. Whether the bot now bids 2 or supports your suit with 3 I do not know as I do not play with bots. Either way, you should still end up in a 4 contract
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#7 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2022-June-18, 07:47

1H 1N 2H 2S

This is very useful. There are two ways to play it, each (to me) making sense

It can be used to show both minors, without indicating anything about strength.

Or it can be used to plug a different hole in standard methods.

1H 1N 2H 3C/D is usually ‘to play’, showing a long minor.

But what strength?

If one uses 1H 3C/D as artificial, for example as a form of Bergen raises, then one may have anything from a very weak hand up to an invitational hand.

That’s where 2S comes in. It can be used to differentiate between weak and invitational hands. There’s no magic in which goes through 2S…one can use it for the invite or the signoff, whichever you decide.

2S forces 2N then responder bids his minor. If you decide this shows the invitational hand then a direct 3minor shows the weaker

Obviously if one plays 1H 3minor as natural and invitational one doesn’t need this and then I’d suggest both minors

If 3minor is unavailable, imo 2S is best used to split the 3minor rebid hand. Why?

Because with both minors, I think the odds favour passing 2H. Opener has 6 or more hearts and (usually) no 4 card minor.

Indeed, consider that opener may have as few as 2 cards in his best minor….3622 is hardly implausible so one may wish to stop digging before the hole gets too deep. Now, if one is 6-6 minors, one would really like to show both suits, but it’s very rare that this would be the case….where is the spade suit? In real life 6-6 hands are very low frequency plus often an opponent will be bidding spades.
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#8 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2022-June-18, 15:45

View Postpescetom, on 2022-June-17, 09:23, said:

(I corrected the insufficient bid).

Did you call the director first? :-)
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#9 User is online   thepossum 

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Posted 2022-June-23, 06:59

Thx everyone for the discussion

Remarkably I had my second impossible spade in a few days



Worked out ok at MPs this time but still not much the wiser :)
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