BBO Discussion Forums: self exposed liar - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

self exposed liar

#1 User is offline   Draculea 

  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 15
  • Joined: 2016-January-31
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Castrum Sex
  • Interests:bridge

Posted 2022-January-04, 05:43

hand

→TD (Private): may I ask why B8 adjusted?
TD(Private): you opened 2♠ with only 5 so opp can't think your p has 3♠ and that is why they went down
→TD (Private): really!?
→TD (Private): in 3rd seat?!
TD (Private): if you have 6♠ North 2♠ south 3♠ your p can only have 2))
TD (Private): but i gave you 60%
→TD (Private): that's not the point!
→TD (Private): anyway .... in my opinion that has nothing to do with bridge .... maybe kindergarten
TD (Private): south CAN NOT play the same way
→TD (Private): sorry TD but 2♠ is a normal bid , please ask for second opinion
TD (Private): ok I am not a good TD better you don't come again and play with us ty for leaving our group
→TD (Private): no problem, have fun
TD (Private): YES THE BID IS GOOD but if opp went down because you lied
→TD (Private): please just ask for second opinion, someone you trust
→TD (Private): not that I want my % back .... just for sake of bridge
TD (Private): I accepted the bid 2♠ BUT they went down because she can't expect your p has 3♠ see the board please
→TD (Private): I know the board exactly abd I also know what happen!
TD (Private): i gave you 60% i have no other choice than 40% 50% or 60% sorry for this
→TD (Private): it is not about % .... please make me a favour and show the hand to someone else ... it may help you with future decisions you are going to make


I am sorry for all players that got affected by the change of the result and I promise to take my truth-telling pill before playing bridge again ...

yours truly,
Drac

This post has been edited by diana_eva: 2022-January-07, 17:54
Reason for edit: removed usernames

0

#2 User is offline   steve2005 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,063
  • Joined: 2010-April-22
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hamilton, Canada
  • Interests:Bridge duh!

Posted 2022-January-04, 09:25

Well, 3N has no play on a spade lead.
You really want a spade led so either 1 or 2 opening is called for
Sarcasm is a state of mind
1

#3 User is offline   mycroft 

  • Secretary Bird
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,353
  • Joined: 2003-July-12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Calgary, Canada

Posted 2022-January-04, 10:20

There are players who know there is One True Bidding (and Carding) Style, and will complain when you don't follow it ("why do people just want to confuse us" if it's Alerted and explained, "but they didn't bid right and I got confused" if it's something that isn't Alertable).

Some of them become directors and run games.

Especially on BBO, where "anyone" can be a TD and run their own games. Note that BBO allows them whatever rules they want...including "5 card weak 2s aren't fair". But it happens in the clubs too (I once played "5-rule Club" at my home club. Because we opened 1M 8-12, our weak 2s were 3-7 or so. The TD said "in my club, weak 2s have to be '5 and 5'." Okay, we said; we'll change it to "13-15, 6 card suit" (kind of a hole in 5-Rule Club; when you only get 5 rules, you'll have some holes...) When that came up and the TD was called, "nothing wrong with intermediate 2 bids"...)

If the disclosure regulations in force require mentioning the possibility of 5-card weak 2s, and you didn't, and that caused declarer to go down, then it is correct to adjust the score. If you didn't know the regulations, well, now you do. If you think they're stupid (or if you think that there's likely to be a bunch more stealth OTBS regulations in this TD's games you don't really want to trip over), mark that TD as one whose games you won't play in.

Now, I play a system where we would explain our (even first seat!) weak 2s as "5-bad 12, 5+cards. All hands meeting that are opened, 95% are opened 2 of the longest suit". If we bid it, of course we would self-Alert. A sign of what kind of TD you have is whether that is a lie as well. If it is, then "if you don't Bid Right, that's Not Fair." and I won't play in those games (my other standard system is K/S, and I'm sure there's also a "regulation" barring 12-14 1NT openers and 2 not being Stayman). If the TD says to declarer who chose to assume 6 cards (whether I have 5 and they didn't hold up enough or I have 7 and they "endplayed" me to make) "he did tell you what his 2 bids look like", then okay.

If you want good bridge played to good (relatively at least) regulations, play in games with an official SO, whether it's the BBO club (running under ACBL regulations) or a virtual national club (playing to the regulations you're used to in RL clubs) or something with a posted list. If you play a random free tournament with a random free TD, well, you get at least what you pay for. Possibly more, but don't count on it.

Now, if this happened in a game with an official SO, don't put it here, report the hand to the SO. Either you'll get "yes, that's what our regulations say" or the TD might be educated so that next time it doesn't happen. But I expect the previous case.
When I go to sea, don't fear for me, Fear For The Storm -- Birdie and the Swansong (tSCoSI)
0

#4 User is offline   pescetom 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 5,024
  • Joined: 2014-February-18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Italy

Posted 2022-January-04, 10:37

If this is a regular partnership then I don't see why you should have problems disclosing your 2M opening agreement on BBO. It should at least be written in your convention card, you can also alert it either automatically (with BBOAlert or similar) or manually (assuming the regulations allow/oblige alert of a weak 2 which might be 5-card).
0

#5 User is offline   mycroft 

  • Secretary Bird
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,353
  • Joined: 2003-July-12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Calgary, Canada

Posted 2022-January-04, 10:55

I think the issue is that OP thinks that "in 3rd seat, the rules go out the window" is "knowledge [] generally known to bridge players." And I agree with him. But there are many many threads in the forums where "they opened in third seat with 987643 and a Queen" or "they overcalled our 2 with 7 spades and a zero count" (or 5 spades and a zero-count!). This is not something known to all - generally, sure, but not universally. It's something people learn from experience. It seems this director is one of the exceptions. Which is unfortunate.

Absolutely, if 5-card weak 2s are Alertable, do so. Online, explain unusual things even if they're not technically Alertable, sure. But OP didn't think it was unusual enough to comment on, never mind "a lie".

There are other issues (not least Law40C1 - lying is legal, under certain circumstances. Not disclosing your actual agreement is not.) But that again falls under "this TD doesn't know the Laws, I don't like the way they run their game, I won't play in it ever again".
When I go to sea, don't fear for me, Fear For The Storm -- Birdie and the Swansong (tSCoSI)
0

#6 User is offline   pescetom 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 5,024
  • Joined: 2014-February-18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Italy

Posted 2022-January-04, 16:17

View Postmycroft, on 2022-January-04, 10:55, said:

I think the issue is that OP thinks that "in 3rd seat, the rules go out the window" is "knowledge [] generally known to bridge players." And I agree with him. But there are many many threads in the forums where "they opened in third seat with 987643 and a Queen" or "they overcalled our 2 with 7 spades and a zero count" (or 5 spades and a zero-count!). This is not something known to all - generally, sure, but not universally. It's something people learn from experience. It seems this director is one of the exceptions. Which is unfortunate.

Absolutely, if 5-card weak 2s are Alertable, do so. Online, explain unusual things even if they're not technically Alertable, sure. But OP didn't think it was unusual enough to comment on, never mind "a lie".


I agree 100%, was just poking OP to reflect whether or not he did all that was possible to disclose, including something he thought was usual but opponents might not. It's all too easy to get annoyed with TD, but often we later realise that we didn't exactly get it all right ourselves either. Happens to me, at any rate.

But the point you implicitly raise is interesting, how does the popular but not universal (even in the same partnership) conviction "in 3rd seat, it's not bridge" affect disclosure of agreements? My own position as a player has always been that the system card describes standard agreements in 1st or 2nd seat: for 3rd seat opening I explain that the standard explanation is X, but might well be much less here. In the specific case of a weak 2, it means I have to alert rather than announce, as the latter is reserved to a 6-card 6-11 HCP (which I'm prepared to live with in 1st or 2nd), but here it could be 5-card or 5 HCP (less would fall foul of other regulations).
0

#7 User is offline   Charlie Yu 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 106
  • Joined: 2011-November-07

Posted 2022-January-06, 05:42

3D is self harm and 3Nxx has no play. And I don't think there is any grounds to assume OP's partner is "fielding the psychic" with this hand
0

#8 User is offline   diana_eva 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Admin
  • Posts: 4,700
  • Joined: 2009-July-26
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:bucharest / romania

Posted 2022-January-07, 18:04

Posting hands or BBO happenings with the purpose of public shaming or to try to incite the community into judging some BBO member who isn't a part of the discussion is against the rules of the forums.

I caught this one late and there were several good replies to it already. Normally just the fact someone posts for shaming is sufficient to get the post removed.

That said, like mycroft well noted, on BBO there are plenty free games organized by volunteers, who are not certified TDs (or TDs at all). They have a lot of freedom to run their games any way they see fit, as long as it's not abusive or discriminatory.

The hand you posted comes from one such game: free, ran by an unpaid volunteer, it's basically their private game, not an official bridge competition following a specific jurisdiction.

#9 User is offline   gszes 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,611
  • Joined: 2011-February-12

Posted 2022-January-07, 20:20

View Postdiana_eva, on 2022-January-07, 18:04, said:

Posting hands or BBO happenings with the purpose of public shaming or to try to incite the community into judging some BBO member who isn't a part of the discussion is against the rules of the forums.

I caught this one late and there were several good replies to it already. Normally just the fact someone posts for shaming is sufficient to get the post removed.

That said, like mycroft well noted, on BBO there are plenty free games organized by volunteers, who are not certified TDs (or TDs at all). They have a lot of freedom to run their games any way they see fit, as long as it's not abusive or discriminatory.

The hand you posted comes from one such game: free, ran by an unpaid volunteer, it's basically their private game, not an official bridge competition following a specific jurisdiction.


If a player has a "problem" with action(s) taken by a TD where can they post/email/call to try and figure things out. The post gives me no clue what/when this game was played so there is no way of knowing who the TD was (maybe I am just a lazy detective). Seriously though, IF the 2s was recognized as OK by the TD that should have ended the director's participation in the hand. SOMEONE needs to inform the TD what are the official channels:))))))))))))))) STAY WELL
0

#10 User is offline   mycroft 

  • Secretary Bird
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,353
  • Joined: 2003-July-12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Calgary, Canada

Posted 2022-January-07, 22:05

Again, if you don't like the way free TDs run their games, find another one. It's a privilege they're offering you to play in their games, not the other way around, and it's not the Spingold either.

As a TD of some note, I have played many many games where we get totally jobbed by the opponents and I have to sit and take it or be accused of bridge lawyering. I have had many rulings that (to my biased, but also fairly skilled, view) were totally, but not blackletter, wrong, and I've said "thank you Director" and gone on to the next hand. If it's too bad, or the atmosphere is such that I can't enjoy the game (or I realize that the room can't enjoy the game with me in it), then I find another game. Otherwise I suck it up and play. Or I volunteer to direct some of the games, and see if "doing things the way Mycroft was trained" encourages some of the other directors to get things more correct as well.

If I can do it - ascerbic, obnoxious, and strange as I am - others can too. Want Spingold-level directing? Go play in the Spingold. It's USD30/session. Want to have a pleasant couple of hours playing a tournament, for free? Don't expect Kojak or Spider.

Having said that, whether the OP was correct or not, the many violations of the Laws have been noted (and not only by me), and I'm sure suitable rectification for those infractions will accrue in time.
When I go to sea, don't fear for me, Fear For The Storm -- Birdie and the Swansong (tSCoSI)
0

#11 User is offline   pilowsky 

  • pilowsky
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,859
  • Joined: 2019-October-04
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia

Posted 2022-January-07, 22:09

View Postmycroft, on 2022-January-07, 22:05, said:

... - ascerbic, obnoxious, and strange as I am.


Surely not.
non est deus ex machina; även maskiner behöver lite kärlek.
0

#12 User is offline   Gilithin 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 419
  • Joined: 2014-November-13
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2022-January-08, 08:26

[removed hand and comments about the game]


To the OP, pretty much every bridge player that plays outside of their clique has encountered a members ruling at some point. Mark this one down to that. It is unlikely to be the last such example you see.

This post has been edited by diana_eva: 2022-January-08, 09:55

0

#13 User is offline   diana_eva 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Admin
  • Posts: 4,700
  • Joined: 2009-July-26
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:bucharest / romania

Posted 2022-January-08, 09:54

View PostGilithin, on 2022-January-08, 08:26, said:

[removed hand and comments about the game]


To the OP, pretty much every bridge player that plays outside of their clique has encountered a members ruling at some point. Mark this one down to that. It is unlikely to be the last such example you see.


After explaining this entire thread is against the rules of the forums, and removing the actual hand from the OP, please do not come back to post the hand again.

We do not allow people to come post just to shame others, and we do not allow posting hands that can identify who the user in question is, for more "generic" discussions. Anonymize your data if you want to talk bridge, and do not post at all if you just want to make other BBO mermbers look bad.

#14 User is online   Mariner1 

  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 15
  • Joined: 2006-June-11

Posted 2022-January-10, 17:27

Opening a weak 2 in the 3rd seat is usually a really weak opener to gum up the 4th seat. The 5 card opener is usually a 4th seat bid telling P no matter what you would bid I would have to respond 2 of the same suit. It is designed to lock the O's out of the auction and to end it quicker. Such actions are usually directed more to Match Point games than IMPS.

Opening a 5 card weak 2 in 3rd seat, when legal, is probably a poorly conceived idea and I would recommend playing Drury or better Reverse two-way Drury or some other form of support/no support convention. There are just too many hands that even with the 11 point opener exhibited here that can have game possibilities.
0

#15 User is offline   Draculea 

  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 15
  • Joined: 2016-January-31
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Castrum Sex
  • Interests:bridge

Posted 2022-January-14, 06:07

interesting ... were I not the only one exposed for public shame? ... I better keep my mouth shut or who knows what metamorphoses might take place instead of regular full moon
0

#16 User is offline   mycroft 

  • Secretary Bird
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,353
  • Joined: 2003-July-12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Calgary, Canada

Posted 2022-January-14, 11:28

You posted your opponents names. Who called the TD for "he opened 2 with only 5", I wonder? And it was obvious that your implication is that people who think that don't know how bridge is played.

Enough of the names and hands were posted that it was reasonably easy to determine which tournament it was and who the TD was. And it was obvious that your implication is that this TD doesn't know how bridge is played either, or how to direct for that matter.

So, no, you were not the only one exposed for public shame. And if that wasn't deliberate, you did a really good job of looking like someone who was "innocently" and "accidentally" doing it deliberately. It sure was the implication I got from the post.

And someone who was trying "who, me?" fake innocence would do exactly what you just did, too. After all, if there was actual innocence going on, the first line of Diana Eva's moderator post should have been sufficient to trigger a "oh, I did, didn't I? Oops".

I will say that were I TD being talked about here, the original post would get you a L91A suspension from my tournaments for a couple of months. That is, if I hadn't already done so (which it looks like in your quote the TD had). Even if you managed to convince me that you didn't intend it that way (that might stop it from being permanent, though). Hence:

Quote

whether the OP was correct or not, the many violations of the Laws have been noted (and not only by me), and I'm sure suitable rectification for those infractions will accrue in time.

When I go to sea, don't fear for me, Fear For The Storm -- Birdie and the Swansong (tSCoSI)
0

#17 User is offline   Draculea 

  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 15
  • Joined: 2016-January-31
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Castrum Sex
  • Interests:bridge

Posted 2022-January-18, 02:14

I wonder if you can work out what your posts imply, mycroft
and, among other more important things that I'll abstain commenting on, looking only at how the amusing part was bypassed, including my terrible play, I feel I don't belong here, bye
0

Share this topic:


Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users