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Can anyone explain this cue bid ... seems I wasn't alone in being bamboozled

#1 User is offline   thepossum 

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Posted 2021-December-13, 00:50

Recent bot MP tourney. Hand 2. Red vs white

innocuous opening of 1D then all hell breaks lose after 4H cue bid is doubled by next time to bid - and no idea what it means or where to go (except being forced to escape somewhere)

After looking at the scores, remarkably I had (almost) the top, and everyone else floundering around in their desperate totally blind escape attempts. The only reason I had a top was that I took forcing to 4NT literally and didnt want to go higher. At least I had two aces

Please explain to us normal Bridge players



As far as I can see there are few clues as to what we should bid (except hearts), or even that we should be at that level at all

I am searching Google for what to do. One reference (by Debbie Rosenberg) says if confused by partner's cue bid just make your most natural bid - in my case 2 clubs or pass etc. Maybe even 2 or 3NT if feeling optimistic
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#2 User is online   smerriman 

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Posted 2021-December-13, 02:09

Are you looking for what the cue bid should mean if a decent bridge player made it, or what it means to the robot? They're unrelated, so you won't find any understanding of the latter or how to follow up via a Google search.

I'm guessing the latter given you posted it in the GIB forum.

You can assume GIB has less than 4 spades, since it will always double or bid spades with 4 or more.

You can also pretty much assume GIB doesn't have a heart stopper; while 3N is described as showing "4- clubs", don't believe it as it will bid 3NT with both Jxx Kx xxx AKQxx and Jxx Kx AQx AKQxx.

It might have a good hand with clubs, but it will also cue with Qxx xx AKQxxx Qx because cuebidding is fun, so don't expect it to have clubs.

As for your followups, none of 4NT, pass, or redouble show anything in the robot's system, so it's probably not going to matter much what you'd do. I'd pass, see which minor GIB bids*, pass again and hope you didn't miss a grand slam. If you did, it's not like you could have gotten there with GIB anyway.

* If you pass, GIB might follow up with 4, promising 4+ spades. You already know it will never have this (eg it chooses this continuation with QJx x Kxxxxx AKx for no apparent reason), so then all you can do is bid 5 and hope you survive.
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#3 User is offline   thepossum 

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Posted 2021-December-13, 03:51

Shall I post the traveller ?

I believe 4NT was the only half reasonable escape. Nobody left 4Hx in

Edit apologies, looking down the bottom of the traveller and a few people risked leaving 4Hx in to see what happened, and ended in spades. At least NT, clubs and diamonds gave some hope of avoiding a blood bath

I realise that it shows a certain lack of confidence in one's Bridge ability being surprised that one's own confused escape attempt resulted in the top but its genuinely remarakble

Maybe my anxiety was unwarranted having stops in all 4 suits :)
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#4 User is online   smerriman 

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Posted 2021-December-13, 04:17

Huh? There is no remote chance of "leaving 4Hx in"; even GIB isn't that bad. Passing just allows it to show what minor it actually has; you know it has one if not both. And if it bids its 3 card major, I'm correcting to 5 as mentioned (after which it can bid diamonds if it really has a running diamond suit).
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#5 User is offline   thepossum 

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Posted 2021-December-13, 04:35

View Postsmerriman, on 2021-December-13, 04:17, said:

Huh? There is no remote chance of "leaving 4Hx in"; even GIB isn't that bad. Passing just allows it to show what minor it actually has; you know it has one if not both. And if it bids its 3 card major, I'm correcting to 5 as mentioned (after which it can bid diamonds if it really has a running diamond suit).


Stop being an smartarse mate. You know full well what I mean. South passed and GiB put them into Spades

I'm sick of it. Its incessant. So disclose your interest in defending it

Are you trying to demonstrate some superiority in Bridge by defending that cue bid. Look at the traveller mate

You don't look good

Many good Bridge players would have been insulted and embarrassed by that hand. You defend it. It happens regularly

I guess it was a freebie and people hadn't wasted their hard-earned dollars. They still wasted their time and faced the embarrassment of dealing with that cue bid

Some of us don't feel the need to constantly target and put someone else down. What's your reason for it?

Maybe I am unusual. The pleasure in Bridge is competing for *makeable* contract and making or defending them - are there some weird people like fighting over 4 or 5 undertricks :)

Would love to be in a husiness that could make money constantly embarrassing and humiliating their clients

I sadly don't have any standing or authority to critique that bid. And the likely pile-on against me the nobody may well occur. But I'm sick of the BS

There is something called respect for people, clients and the game. Its not just about money. I know I am in a minority in the world caring about stuff other than profits

To be fair the biggest issue was the lack of explanation of the bid. No information at all
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#6 User is offline   LBengtsson 

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Posted 2021-December-13, 04:55

I have a small idea with a human partner what 4 means here other than it is forcing imo. I would only assume - and this is wild guess - it is an advanced cue bid showing a void/stiff and agreeing s as trump suit. With GIB I have no idea as I do not play with robots.

btw, why did you open 1 here instead of 1? I prefer rebid of 1NT if partner bids 1/1 here than rebidding 2 showing longer than except if you have agreement that 4/5 hands can be bid this way.
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#7 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2021-December-13, 11:26

I don't think that smerriman is defending the cue bid, rather he is pointing out that GIB doesn't bid well.

(And, if anyone has any experience with it, its kinda pointless to try to attach meanings to various sequences)
Alderaan delenda est
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#8 User is online   smerriman 

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Posted 2021-December-13, 12:22

Indeed.. I thought I made it extremely clear in my post how nonsensical the sequences were in GIB's system. Was just answering your question of what it means to GIB and how I'd bid as a human.
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#9 User is offline   thepossum 

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Posted 2021-December-13, 14:02

I thought this thread was pointing out ridiculous GiB bids. I wasn't expecting any kind of defence

Further googling and Karen's page suggest I could possibly interpret it as strong with 5 in spades and a minor

I'm trying to post the traveller but the carnage was so extreme and so varied the traveller is immense

50% is somewhere between -200 and -300
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