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3226 COR

Poll: 3226 COR (12 member(s) have cast votes)

Your rebid?

  1. 2C (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  2. 2D (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  3. 2H (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  4. 2S (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  5. 2NT (10 votes [83.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 83.33%

  6. 3C (2 votes [16.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 16.67%

  7. Other (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#1 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2021-May-25, 11:12

MP


Playing 2/1 with 5542 openings, strong NT.
You open this 1 (if it fits your style for an NT opening then it looked too much for 1NT and not enough for 2NT).
Partner responds 1, which is probably natural but might be <4 with clubs (does not deny a 4-card major if diamonds are 5+card).
Your choice of rebid now?
Please answer the poll and make any considerations here.
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#2 User is offline   nullve 

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Posted 2021-May-25, 11:23

2N. Not obviously a distortion.
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#3 User is offline   LBengtsson 

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Posted 2021-May-25, 12:19

I open 1Nt with 6m332 shape so I see no problem rebidding 2Nt with 6m332 shape and very good 17 high point count. (k&r over 20!)
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#4 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2021-May-25, 12:46

View PostLBengtsson, on 2021-May-25, 12:19, said:

I open 1Nt with 6m332 shape so I see no problem rebidding 2Nt with 6m332 shape and very good 17 high point count. (k&r over 20!)


I agree with this and voted 2N, but my only issue would be what is 3 over this ? are we going to have issues getting back into clubs when we need to ?
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#5 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2021-May-25, 13:55

I dont have any problems bidding an old school textbook 3C-if nt is right it should be played by partner
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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#6 User is offline   fromageGB 

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Posted 2021-May-26, 05:33

I have never seen a hand so unsuitable for NT when partner has not bid hearts. He will assume you have them. Is there a problem with bidding 3?
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#7 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2021-May-26, 05:54

View PostfromageGB, on 2021-May-26, 05:33, said:

I have never seen a hand so unsuitable for NT when partner has not bid hearts. He will assume you have them. Is there a problem with bidding 3?


The problem is partner is not going to visualise some hands as being cold for 3N which actually are Jxx, Kx, xxxxx, Qxx is cold for 3N and no play for 5, are you really bidding anything over 3 that will get you to 3N ? Partner could easily be way less good than he is.
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#8 User is online   mikeh 

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Posted 2021-May-26, 06:50

I would rebid 2N.

I definitely do not routinely open 1N with 6322 hands and I think it absurd to do so. Its not (imo) a winning strategy at matchpoints and its completely weird at imps unless trying for a swing...which will usually be adverse when it happens. There are exceptions but they involve weak long suits and good positional holdings in the side suits.

I have a partner who likes doing this more often than do I but my experience, usually as dummy, is that when responder is weak, we either play in 2M on a 5-2, with a 6-2 or 6-3 minor partial being far better, or we play in a tight 3N when 5m or even 6m are better.

The argument is not the same after weve opened 1C, since weve had a round of bidding in which both opponents have had chances to intervene cheaply and both passed.

That isnt to say that Id usually rebid 2N with this shape and hcp total. Most of the time, the hand will be better described, for game and slam purposes, by 3C.

However, with A10 in hearts and Qxx in spades, I definitely want the lead coming to me plus partner may not be able to bid 3N over 3C.

Picture Axx Jxx QJxxx Jx (admittedly, a hand on which he can bid 3N over 3C but the right siding argument is what Im illustrating)

You lay down this hand as dummy and get a small heart lead through you, or (less damaging, usually) the spade Jack. Then picture either lead into your hand. Which looks better?
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#9 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2021-May-26, 07:22

View Postmikeh, on 2021-May-26, 06:50, said:

I would rebid 2N.

I definitely do not routinely open 1N with 6322 hands and I think it absurd to do so. Its not (imo) a winning strategy at matchpoints and its completely weird at imps unless trying for a swing...which will usually be adverse when it happens. There are exceptions but they involve weak long suits and good positional holdings in the side suits.

I have a partner who likes doing this more often than do I but my experience, usually as dummy, is that when responder is weak, we either play in 2M on a 5-2, with a 6-2 or 6-3 minor partial being far better, or we play in a tight 3N when 5m or even 6m are better.

The argument is not the same after weve opened 1C, since weve had a round of bidding in which both opponents have had chances to intervene cheaply and both passed.

That isnt to say that Id usually rebid 2N with this shape and hcp total. Most of the time, the hand will be better described, for game and slam purposes, by 3C.

However, with A10 in hearts and Qxx in spades, I definitely want the lead coming to me plus partner may not be able to bid 3N over 3C.

Picture Axx Jxx QJxxx Jx (admittedly, a hand on which he can bid 3N over 3C but the right siding argument is what Im illustrating)

You lay down this hand as dummy and get a small heart lead through you, or (less damaging, usually) the spade Jack. Then picture either lead into your hand. Which looks better?

I remember a hand quite like this one played by a friend of mine in a National event. His partner Mark Lair had the hand with a pair of doubleton aces and cue bid one the aces to steer the nt to the other side. David held queens in both of those suits and made 7 on a repeating squeeze after opening leader under led a king against 3nt. Mark and David won the event.
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#10 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2021-May-26, 08:18

View PostWinstonm, on 2021-May-26, 07:22, said:

I remember a hand quite like this one played by a friend of mine in a National event. His partner Mark Lair had the hand with a pair of doubleton aces and cue bid one the aces to steer the nt to the other side. David held queens in both of those suits and made 7 on a repeating squeeze after opening leader under led a king against 3nt. Mark and David won the event.


Next time partner will have jacks rather than queens, Ax/A10 is a very double edged holding if you don't know whether partner has Q or J. Ax/J10x A10/Jxx you want the lead coming up to the A. It's not out of the question partner has QJ tight in one of the suits where you definitely want the lead coming up to the doubleton A. If partner has Qxx opposite A10 you have 2 stops whichever side they're led from, different to Ax.
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#11 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2021-May-26, 09:13

View PostCyberyeti, on 2021-May-26, 08:18, said:

Next time partner will have jacks rather than queens, Ax/A10 is a very double edged holding if you don't know whether partner has Q or J. Ax/J10x A10/Jxx you want the lead coming up to the A. It's not out of the question partner has QJ tight in one of the suits where you definitely want the lead coming up to the doubleton A. If partner has Qxx opposite A10 you have 2 stops whichever side they're led from, different to Ax.


Yes, point being: how to know?
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#12 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2021-May-26, 10:40

View PostWinstonm, on 2021-May-26, 09:13, said:

Yes, point being: how to know?


Indeed but with A10 I think the odds shift considerably from 2x Ax that you want the lead up to you
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#13 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2021-May-26, 13:03

Thanks to those who replied so far.
The NT opening issue was more of a secondary curiosity, but deserves its space.
My main interest was how others see this hand as justifying (or not) a deviation from the classic 3 rebid.

View Postmikeh, on 2021-May-26, 06:50, said:

However, with A10 in hearts and Qxx in spades, I definitely want the lead coming to me plus partner may not be able to bid 3N over 3C.
Picture Axx Jxx QJxxx Jx (admittedly, a hand on which he can bid 3N over 3C but the right siding argument is what I’m illustrating)


This is close to my own thinking, however I concede that it is not easy to picture that many hands where partner cannot bid 3N over 3C, of which some where it might still be the right side, or swings and roundabouts.

I hope a few more people will vote here.
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