[HeartA]

2S.

[Winstonm]

Quote

the result was e/w -500... imo it seems that pass allows n/s to find the (cold) 4♥ or 5♦ games, with whatever tools are available, tho i guess they wouldn't always do so

That's why I prefer 1S over 2S - it doesn't propel partner into a poor and/or phantom sacrifice. As long as partner is aware that 3rd seat can make these types of lead-directing 1-bids, he should not hang you out to dry if the auction indicates that you may not have full values. In this situation, the worst it should be would be: 1S-2D-3D. Now, you may get doubled at 3S, but it isn't likely. South will probably bid his hearts and then pass should convince partner that there is no future - besides, partner's cue bid said what he had, and he should leave further action up to you anyway.

WinstonM

[P_Marlowe]

Pass.

This is a matter of style.

My openings in 1st and 3rd seat do not differ very strongly,
but this is not a popular style.

I think the raise to 4S is reasonable at this colours,
but then, my partners will always expect a 6 crad suit,
i.e. I would expect a raise to 4S.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[FrancesHinden]

2S is the normal bid on this hand in most of my partnerships.
I might open 1S sometimes depending on oppo.
I wouldn't pass unless I was desperately trying to swing.

[Gerben42]

1NT: never ever ever.
Pass: Normal
1♠ / 2♠: If you need to.

Disagree with 4♠ bid at the table. Partner is 3rd seat favorable, don't punish him. 3♠ is enough. If they still bid game, so be it.

[Fluffy]

2♠, any other bid is too agressive.

[han]

I have had more success opening 1S than 2S with hands like this.

If you do make a habit of opening hands like this with 2S then partner should be more conservative in his raises imo.

[joker_gib]

Pass (I don't like that 5332 for 2♠)

Not enough for 1♠ even in third !

Alain

[cherdano]

mike777, on Jun 12 2005, 10:25 PM, said:

I can pass in third seat with my hand since P cannot have that hand.
4234 with 10HCP NV in first seat open ONE CLUB. We find our double fit in clubs and spades fast.

Much harder for opp  to find 4H or 5D now.

Are you serious? Over a pass by East, South will pass unless they play Muiderberg or similar. Over 1♣, many would overcall 1♥, after which it seems very difficult to miss 4♥ for NS.

Anyway, I much prefer a style where I can open this hand 2♠ (or 1♠); IMVHO anybody who doesn't think there is merit in preempts having decent defense some of the time should read the "Pressure bidding" chapter in Robson/Segal.

Arend

[mike777]

cherdano, on Jun 13 2005, 09:38 AM, said:

mike777, on Jun 12 2005, 10:25 PM, said:

I can pass in third seat with my hand since P cannot have that hand.
4234 with 10HCP NV in first seat open ONE CLUB. We find our double fit in clubs and spades fast.

Much harder for opp  to find 4H or 5D now.

Are you serious? Over a pass by East, South will pass unless they play Muiderberg or similar. Over 1♣, many would overcall 1♥, after which it seems very difficult to miss 4♥ for NS.

Anyway, I much prefer a style where I can open this hand 2♠ (or 1♠); IMVHO anybody who doesn't think there is merit in preempts having decent defense some of the time should read the "Pressure bidding" chapter in Robson/Segal.

Arend

Yes I am very serious about opening 1C. You seem to have missed my point.
1) easier to find double fit and bid 4s now.
2) Many will not overcall 1H vul against not but agree some will. You may or may not go for a number with these kinds of lead directing overcalls at this vul. Most good p should find h lead without the need for this type of overcall.
3) One of the main reasons 2s=4s works out is because of double fit..without it you may or may not have disaster.

[luke warm]

my reason for opening 2s were the obvious ones.. the colors and the pressure... i think 4s was a tad pushy, but if i open that way i can't complain too much... on this hand the main point seems to be that a pass might lead to only a partscore for n/s, since bidding game is tough

[the hog]

Lol. I know some good players who would open this 3S! I think a third seat 2S is fine. I would raise to 3S, not 4 with partner's hand - cut him some slack.

[cherdano]

mike777, on Jun 13 2005, 04:06 PM, said:

cherdano, on Jun 13 2005, 09:38 AM, said:

mike777, on Jun 12 2005, 10:25 PM, said:

I can pass in third seat with my hand since P cannot have that hand.
4234 with 10HCP NV in first seat open ONE CLUB. We find our double fit in clubs and spades fast.

Much harder for opp  to find 4H or 5D now.

Are you serious? Over a pass by East, South will pass unless they play Muiderberg or similar. Over 1♣, many would overcall 1♥, after which it seems very difficult to miss 4♥ for NS.

Yes I am very serious about opening 1C. You seem to have missed my point.
1) easier to find double fit and bid 4s now.
2) Many will not overcall 1H vul against not but agree some will. You may or may not go for a number with these kinds of lead directing overcalls at this vul. Most good p should find h lead without the need for this type of overcall.
3) One of the main reasons 2s=4s works out is because of double fit..without it you may or may not have disaster.

Hi Mike,

I wasn't questioning the merits of opening 1C in general, just the statement that it would make it harder for opps to find 4♥. I think many more would overcall 1♥ with the S hand, than would have an opening bid with this hand available.

Arend

[beatrix45]

Maybe I am idiosyncratic, but I've had a lot of luck over the years at matchpoints opening that hand one spade when not vul. Doing this is much less obstructive than a weak two bid, but it creates a climate of uncertainty where the opponents' view as to the most likely state of affairs is wrong.

By comparison, the weak two opener has two shortcomings that work against its very considerable preemptive strength.

First, it is a limit bid facing a limit bid (the initial pass). This info is of more use to the opponents than to us. They know they have the high card values to at the very least compete.

Second, unless you play very frequent five card weak twos, partner has trouble knowing when to enhance your initial preempt with a raise. Whether you believe in the LAW or not, combined suit length has to be the basis for partner's potential raise when you know you are even or behind in total combined high card strength.

[pclayton]

I would open it 2♠. Furthermore with Jimmy's example hand a few days ago I would NOT bounce to game.

Ask yourself this - do you respond to a 3rd seat weak 2 the same as you do a 1st or 2nd seat? I prefer to give partner some room - why present the opps with an 800 for the heck of it?