# BBO Discussion Forums: Suggestions: INV vs GF 5-5 majors after 1NT - BBO Discussion Forums

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## Suggestions: INV vs GF 5-5 majors after 1NT

### #1Kungsgeten

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Posted 2021-April-12, 08:50

In our 1NT system all INV+ with both majors starts by bidding Stayman. If opener rebids 2D we play the following:

1NT-2C; 2D---
2H = Non-forcing. INV with both majors (5-4 either way, or 5-5), or weak scramble (doesn't guarantee both majors, but if so then not longer spades than hearts if weak).
2S = Range-ask. Balanced INV or weak/GF with 4M and (4)5+C.
2NT = GF asking bid.
3C = GF with 4M and longer diamonds.
3D = GF with 5+H and 4+S. Could be 5-5 majors.
3H = Smolen. GF with 5+S and 4H. Could have SI 5440.
3S = Smolen. GF with 5+H and 4S. Could have SI 5440.
3NT = To play.
4C = 6H and 4S.
4D = 6S and 4H.
4M = To play.

Responder's 2H bid here is sort of ugly, since it is often weak and thus opener tends wanting to pass when holding 3H (but we have to bid if holding 3H and max, in case responder is invitational). To take some pressure off this 2H bid we've been thinking of putting our INV 5-5 major hands elsewhere. Even though it makes some sense to use 3D as "transfer Smolen" and 3S as regular Smolen in order to confirm the heart fit at the three-level, and being able to handle SI 5-5 and 5440 patterns, it seems most pairs do fine with regular Smolen.

Our current idea is to use responder's 3D rebid to show INV+ with 5-5 majors. Opener then bids 3M with min, 3NT with 22(54), or 4M with max. A downside is that the major is confirmed at the four level, when responder has slam interest and may want to show shortage (bidding 5m should probably show a void). Any other suggestions?

The most obvious solution is to put some hand(s) with both majors into the major suit transfer bids, but our structure currently doesn't have space for that. For those interested:

1NT-2D; 2H (denying 4H, and 2D doesn't promise hearts as it could be bal INV without major)--
2S = INV with 5H, or GF with 5+H and 4+C.
2NT = INV with less than 5H.
3C = GF with 5+H and 4+D.
3D = INV to game or slam with 6H.
3H = GF with 5H. Wants to know if opener have support.
3S = Splinter.
3NT = COG with 5H. Opener may pass even with support.
4m = Splinter.

1NT-2H; 2S (normal transfer accept, 2H promises 5+S)---
2NT = INV with 5S.
3C = GF with 5+S and 4+D.
3D = GF with 5+S and 4+C.
3H = INV to game or slam with 6S.
3S = GF with 5S.
3NT = COG.
4X = Splinters.
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### #2nullve

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Posted 2021-April-12, 16:28

My solution is to not open 1N with 2-2 in the majors. Then it's easy for Responder to treat every hand with 5+-5+ in the majors as either weak or worth a GF.
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### #3Zelandakh

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Posted 2021-April-12, 20:23

This one is easy:

1NT - 2; 2 - 3 = 5+4+ GF+ or 6+ SI
==
3 = 24+
... - 3 = 6+ SI
3 = 23-
... - 3 = 6+ SI
3 = 33-
3NT+ = 34+
--
1NT - 2; 2 - 3 = 5+5+ INV
(-: Zel :-)

Happy New Year everyone!
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### #4Zelandakh

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Posted 2021-April-12, 20:35

Oh yes, you have the same space available in your 2 structure:

1NT - 2; 2 - 2 = 5 INV; or 5+4+ GF+; or 6+ SI
==
2NT = min 2
... - 3 = 4 FG
... - 3 = 5+ FG
... - 3 = 6+ SI
3 = max 2
... - 3 = 4+ FG
... - 3 = 6+ SI
3 = max 3
3 = min 3
--

I play this in combination with:-

1NT - 2; 2 - 3 = 5+5+ FG
1NT - 2; 2 - 3 = 6+ INV

but as you have the additional 5 GF hand, you will have to work something out for that. Perhaps you can throw it into 1NT - 2; 2 - 2, since you automatically find out whether 3 card heart support is held and are still in a forcing auction?
(-: Zel :-)

Happy New Year everyone!
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### #5Kungsgeten

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Posted 2021-April-13, 14:55

Zelandakh, on 2021-April-12, 20:35, said:

Oh yes, you have the same space available in your 2 structure:

1NT - 2; 2 - 2 = 5 INV; or 5+4+ GF+; or 6+ SI
==
2NT = min 2
... - 3 = 4 FG
... - 3 = 5+ FG
... - 3 = 6+ SI
3 = max 2
... - 3 = 4+ FG
... - 3 = 6+ SI
3 = max 3
3 = min 3
--

I play this in combination with:-

1NT - 2; 2 - 3 = 5+5+ FG
1NT - 2; 2 - 3 = 6+ INV

but as you have the additional 5 GF hand, you will have to work something out for that. Perhaps you can throw it into 1NT - 2; 2 - 2, since you automatically find out whether 3 card heart support is held and are still in a forcing auction?

I think this could work for us. Rebidding 2 after a transfer to hearts becomes sort of a checkback for heart length and strength. Either 5+ GF (may be SI) without SPL, or 5 and 4+ GF, or 5 INV. Then, as you say, responder's 3 rebid could be either INV or GF 5-5 majors (with Stayman covering the other range).

The downside is probably that it stops being symmetric with our transfer to spades. We want to find out singleton in a 5431 pattern below 3NT when there's no major fit. I don't think there's space enough over the spade transfer if we also want the "GF 5 spades" hand there.

We'd probably do the following over the heart transfer:

1NT-2D; 2H-2S;
2NT = Min 2H
...3C = Perhaps NF INV with 5-5?
...3D = 4+C, short diamonds.
...3H = 6+H, SI.
...3S = 4+C, short spades.
...3NT = To play.
...4C = ORKCB with 5+C.
3C = Max 2H. Answers as above.
3D = Max 3H.
...3H = Sets hearts, demands cue bids.
...3S = 4+C, short spades. SI.
...3NT = Slam invitational.
...4C = 5-5, SI.
...4D = 4+C, short diamonds. SI.
...4H = To play.
3H = Min 3H. Same as above, but 3NT demands cuebids (probably better to switch 3S and 3NT though).
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### #6kreivi68

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Posted 2021-April-14, 01:56

You seem to have two bids for same the hand type after Stayman and 2 response:

3D = GF with 5+H and 4+S. Could be 5-5 majors.
3S = Smolen. GF with 5+H and 4S. Could have SI 5440

Could it be better to use 3 here for 5-5 majors INV+
(3M= declines; 4/= accepts and agrees /)
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### #7Kungsgeten

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Posted 2021-April-14, 07:42

kreivi68, on 2021-April-14, 01:56, said:

You seem to have two bids for same the hand type after Stayman and 2 response:

3D = GF with 5+H and 4+S. Could be 5-5 majors.
3S = Smolen. GF with 5+H and 4S. Could have SI 5440

Could it be better to use 3 here for 5-5 majors INV+
(3M= declines; 4/= accepts and agrees /)

Yes, that is currently the plan, is probably the easiest solution. There's some upside to having two Smolen options:

- Bidding 3D lets us agree upon hearts at the three-level, which 3S as Smolen doesn't allow. This is good for slam investigation.
- Using 3D also lets us include GF hands with 5-5 majors without much of an issue.
- Bidding 3D however is bad since the risk is higher of a lead directing double (compare to 3S which is a suit that responder holds).

As a result we usually bid 3D with Smolen patterns and slam interest, and GF 5-5 majors (assumed spade fit when opener doesn't have hearts support). 3S is bid with Smolen patterns without slam interest (choice of games hands), but also 5440 hands with slam interest.

I wonder if it would be okay to play 3D as "Smolen slam interest" or 5-5 majors INV+... The problem is when opener has a minimum with 2-3 in the majors. I was thinking something like this:

1NT-2C; 2D-3D; (SI with 5+H and 4S, or INV+ with 5-5 majors)
3H = F1 with 3H, but could be a minimum.
...3S = INV with 5-5 majors.
...3NT = Slam interest, no shortage we want to show.
...4m = Shortage.
3S = NF with 3S and 2H.
...3NT = To play.
...4m = Shortage, confirming spades.
...4M = To play.
3NT = GF without 3H (assumed to hold 3S, since we tend not to open 1NT with 2-2 majors).
...4m = Shortage, confirming spades.
...4M = To play.
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### #8nullve

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Posted 2021-April-15, 01:43

Kungsgeten, on 2021-April-14, 07:42, said:

we tend not to open 1NT with 2-2 majors

Then what does a pair of hands where Opener would reject the invite look like?
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### #9kreivi68

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Posted 2021-April-15, 06:46

Kungsgeten, on 2021-April-12, 08:50, said:

1NT-2H; 2S (normal transfer accept, 2H promises 5+S)---
2NT = INV with 5S.
3C = GF with 5+S and 4+D.
3D = GF with 5+S and 4+C.
3H = INV to game or slam with 6S.
3S = GF with 5S.
3NT = COG.
4X = Splinters.

I have arranged these bids a bit differently after 1NT-2H; 2S:

3 = Single-suited, GF (either 5332 or 6+, slam-try) -> 3S asks: 3NT= bal; 4X= cue, 6
3 = 6, INV
3NT= 5, CoG -> Opener bids always 4 with support
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