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What would your opening bid be with this hand? Canape bid?

#1 User is offline   smalt 

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Posted 2021-February-21, 12:01

My right hand opponent opened 1 Diamond with this hand.
Playing canapé, would you open this hand 1D with this 6/4 distribution S/D?


AQJ986
5
AQ102
A6
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#2 User is online   nullve 

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Posted 2021-February-21, 13:43

If playing Roman Club: Yes

If playing Blue Club: No
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#3 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2021-February-21, 13:56

Is this a ruling question or a bidding question?
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#4 User is online   pescetom 

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Posted 2021-February-21, 13:57

If playing Turin Club: Yes (then 2)
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#5 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2021-February-21, 14:20

Canape is an approach, not a bidding system

The choice of bid with this hand depends on your system.
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#6 User is online   helene_t 

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Posted 2021-February-21, 16:53

View Postnullve, on 2021-February-21, 13:43, said:

If playing Roman Club: Yes

If playing Blue Club: No

Wouldn't you open 1 in both systems? Canape systems usually have limited openings.
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#7 User is online   nullve 

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Posted 2021-February-21, 17:17

View Posthelene_t, on 2021-February-21, 16:53, said:

Wouldn't you open 1 in both systems? Canape systems usually have limited openings.

The 1,1 and 1 openings in Roman Club have the same wide range as in 2/1.
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#8 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2021-February-21, 19:20

View Postnullve, on 2021-February-21, 17:17, said:

The 1,1 and 1 openings in Roman Club have the same wide range as in 2/1.

Is there anybody who still (or ever played) plays Roman Club in the last 50 years?
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#9 User is online   nullve 

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Posted 2021-February-21, 20:31

View Postjohnu, on 2021-February-21, 19:20, said:

Is there anybody who still (or ever played) plays Roman Club in the last 50 years?

In Norway: 2-3 players. I believe they still play it when partnering each other.
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#10 User is offline   spotlight7 

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Posted 2021-February-21, 20:46

View Postjohnu, on 2021-February-21, 19:20, said:

Is there anybody who still (or ever played) plays Roman Club in the last 50 years?


I played a lot of Roman Club at the Congressional Secretaries Bridge club in the late 70s or early 80s.

I also played Roman Club as a change of pace(once in a while} over the last 50 years.
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#11 User is offline   ali quarg 

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Posted 2021-February-22, 02:04

As a side question for the experts:

Are there any 1 systems that open 1 with 15-17hcp or long s
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#12 User is online   helene_t 

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Posted 2021-February-22, 14:34

View Postali quarg, on 2021-February-22, 02:04, said:

As a side question for the experts:

Are there any 1 systems that open 1 with 15-17hcp or long s

If you play coded minors (or Mexican 2) in an otherwise standard short-club system with a 12-14 1nt, then 1 is natural or 15-17 balanced.

But a system in which 1 includes 15-17 any shape (not necessarily balanced) sounds odd. It makes little sense to show point counts that accurately without showing shape at the same time.

There was a crazy teacher in Amstelveen who managed to get many of the pairs in his club to play
1=16-19 any
1=20+ any
I think you could improve on this by putting hands with long clubs into the 1 opening, but it remains a very bad system.
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#13 User is offline   ali quarg 

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Posted 2021-February-23, 01:56

View Posthelene_t, on 2021-February-22, 14:34, said:

If you play coded minors (or Mexican 2) in an otherwise standard short-club system with a 12-14 1nt, then 1 is natural or 15-17 balanced.

But a system in which 1 includes 15-17 any shape (not necessarily balanced) sounds odd. It makes little sense to show point counts that accurately without showing shape at the same time.

There was a crazy teacher in Amstelveen who managed to get many of the pairs in his club to play
1=16-19 any
1=20+ any
I think you could improve on this by putting hands with long clubs into the 1 opening, but it remains a very bad system.

Thanks for the reply

I've just started looking at strong 1 systems and am considering the varieties. I'm OK with the way my system is evolving and caters for Strong hands well, but I find that it is those 15-17 2-suited hands that can sometimes be hard to pin down especially when the longer one is a minor.
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#14 User is online   nullve 

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Posted 2021-February-23, 03:51

View Posthelene_t, on 2021-February-22, 14:34, said:

But a system in which 1 includes 15-17 any shape (not necessarily balanced) sounds odd. It makes little sense to show point counts that accurately without showing shape at the same time.

How about

1 = Moscito (15+) but not 18+ unless primary C
1 = NAT unBAL (11-14, 4D5C possible) but not 15-17 OR 18-20 BAL
1M = Chapi 8* (standard but not 15-17)
1N = 12-14 BAL (4414 possible)
2 = Precision but 11-14
2 = 23+ BAL or any GF w/o primary C
2M = Weak
2N = 21-22 BAL

or

1 = Moscito (15+) but not 18+ unless primary C
1 = NAT unBAL (11-14, 4D5C not possible) OR 18-20 BAL
1M = Chapi 8* (standard but not 15-17)
1N = 12-14 BAL (4414 possible)
2 = Fantunes but 11-14
2 = 23+ BAL or any GF w/o primary C
2M = Weak
2N = 21-22 BAL

?

* benlessard's Chapi 8 system: https://bridge.downa...tem=s2ftdw1w63o
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#15 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2021-February-23, 14:56

Bruce Watson has just published Strong Club, Unbalanced Diamond, based on Marshall Miles' 2007 My System: The Unbalanced Diamond. Personally, I'm sticking to Santa Fe Precision or Standard Modern Precision, or perhaps an amalgamation of both, but you may find something useful in Watson's book.
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As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
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