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misunderstanding a bit of a train wreck

#1 User is offline   AL78 

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Posted 2021-February-13, 04:57

Cross-IMPs



Thigs were going fine until we got to game. We don't have any agreements over a reverse so I decided to show partner I had a good hand with heart support and potential slam interest if she had a good reverse by going through FSF. Unfortunately she corrected to 4 not getting what I was trying to tell her (and she was worried about her poor heart suit). I took 4 as slam going, so cue bid. When she then bid 5 it was clear we were not on the same wavelength and the bidding stopped there.

Partner had a poor reverse (I wouldn't have reversed on that, I think I'd rather open a strong NT or bid 1NT after opening 1 (we were playing weak NT). The working spade finesse gave me hope, but the 4-1 heart split killed it and I went one down. Not the worst disaster I've ever had, -5.5 imps.

I have now suggested to partner we play Lebensohl after a reverse.
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#2 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2021-February-13, 06:03

On a heart lead you can make 6 with brilliant play (ruff 2 diamonds and a club, strip N's clubs, exit with your last trump to endplay N into giving you 2 diamond tricks and provide the entry for the heart/club squeeze on S), but should make 5 by simply taking the spade finesse, drawing trumps, pitching a club on A and playing a heart to the 8. Once the spades behave, the contract is cold given that N isn't leading from QJxx on this auction.

The reverse is revolting, this is not a 16 count with 4 bad hearts and a stiff K, I prefer 2 or 1N to that.
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#3 User is offline   AL78 

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Posted 2021-February-13, 07:06

View PostCyberyeti, on 2021-February-13, 06:03, said:

On a heart lead you can make 6 with brilliant play (ruff 2 diamonds and a club, strip N's clubs, exit with your last trump to endplay N into giving you 2 diamond tricks and provide the entry for the heart/club squeeze on S), but should make 5 by simply taking the spade finesse, drawing trumps, pitching a club on A and playing a heart to the 8. Once the spades behave, the contract is cold given that N isn't leading from QJxx on this auction.

The reverse is revolting, this is not a 16 count with 4 bad hearts and a stiff K, I prefer 2 or 1N to that.


I didn't get a heart lead. I drew trumps before playing on hearts, I played small to hand and LHO played the ten, so I covered and didn't have an entry back to dummy, so had to play for the 3-2 break which wasn't forthcoming. I should have played only two rounds of trumps before touching the hearts, then I have a trump entry to play to hand twice.

I put this hand through an online bridge solver and it says EW can only make 3 on double dummy defence. Apparently, despite the double major fit, the only double dummy game on is 3NT.

I would not have found the brilliant line after a heart lead. That is up there with the Expert and World Class deals on Bridgemaster which nearly always take me multiple attempts or I have to look up the solution.
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#4 User is online   pescetom 

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Posted 2021-February-13, 07:45

View PostAL78, on 2021-February-13, 07:06, said:

I put this hand through an online bridge solver and it says EW can only make 3 on double dummy defence. Apparently, despite the double major fit, the only double dummy game on is 3NT.

My solver is either better in attack or worse in defence: says 6 or 5 or 5NT.
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#5 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2021-February-13, 08:05

View PostAL78, on 2021-February-13, 07:06, said:

I didn't get a heart lead. I drew trumps before playing on hearts, I played small to hand and LHO played the ten, so I covered and didn't have an entry back to dummy, so had to play for the 3-2 break which wasn't forthcoming. I should have played only two rounds of trumps before touching the hearts, then I have a trump entry to play to hand twice.

I put this hand through an online bridge solver and it says EW can only make 3 on double dummy defence. Apparently, despite the double major fit, the only double dummy game on is 3NT.

I would not have found the brilliant line after a heart lead. That is up there with the Expert and World Class deals on Bridgemaster which nearly always take me multiple attempts or I have to look up the solution.


Well GIB reckons you make 6 on any lead, what lead did you get ? I think you should mkake 5 on any other lead by ruffing 2 clubs and pitching a heart on the A leveraging the quality of your trump intermediates.
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#6 User is offline   AL78 

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Posted 2021-February-13, 09:29

View PostCyberyeti, on 2021-February-13, 08:05, said:

Well GIB reckons you make 6 on any lead, what lead did you get ? I think you should mkake 5 on any other lead by ruffing 2 clubs and pitching a heart on the A leveraging the quality of your trump intermediates.


I have tried another solver and yes it does say slam makes. The lead was the 2. I didn't like the option of ruffing clubs at the time because it meant possibly generating a trump loser, so when the finesse worked and they broke 3-2, I have to make three heart tricks, which I thought I had good odds to manage, but not this time.

I struggle to find the best line on these messy hands with limited communication and blockages.
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#7 User is online   pescetom 

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Posted 2021-February-13, 09:50

View PostAL78, on 2021-February-13, 09:29, said:

I have tried another solver and yes it does say slam makes. The lead was the 2. I didn't like the option of ruffing clubs at the time because it meant possibly generating a trump loser, so when the finesse worked and they broke 3-2, I have to make three heart tricks, which I thought I had good odds to manage, but not this time.

I struggle to find the best line on these messy hands with limited communication and blockages.


You can get to cyberyeti's brilliant defence after 2, or any other lead I expect. The problem is finding it at all :(
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#8 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2021-February-13, 10:33

View PostAL78, on 2021-February-13, 09:29, said:

I have tried another solver and yes it does say slam makes. The lead was the 2. I didn't like the option of ruffing clubs at the time because it meant possibly generating a trump loser, so when the finesse worked and they broke 3-2, I have to make three heart tricks, which I thought I had good odds to manage, but not this time.

I struggle to find the best line on these messy hands with limited communication and blockages.


Yes but as long as you only lose a heart and a trump that makes 5

it takes a little bit of jiggery pokery but for example:

2K43
A963
2Q45
A725
610J8
A572
510K3
97KJ
6Q88
10Q76

And now you must make 2 of the last 3 whatever N does.

I don't know the best single dummy line.
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#9 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2021-February-13, 15:53

You know, I think I would have opened 1NT with East's hand. The bidding might then have gone 1NT-2-2-4-4.
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I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
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#10 User is offline   AL78 

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Posted 2021-February-13, 16:15

View Postblackshoe, on 2021-February-13, 15:53, said:

You know, I think I would have opened 1NT with East's hand. The bidding might then have gone 1NT-2-2-4-4.


I would if playing a strong NT or opened 1 followed by 1NT if playing a weak NT. I wouldn't have classed the hand as good enough to reverse.
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#11 User is offline   morecharac 

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Posted 2021-February-13, 16:30

View PostAL78, on 2021-February-13, 04:57, said:

Thigs were going fine until we got to game. We don't have any agreements over a reverse so I decided to show partner I had a good hand with heart support and potential slam interest if she had a good reverse by going through FSF. Unfortunately she corrected to 4 not getting what I was trying to tell her (and she was worried about her poor heart suit). I took 4 as slam going, so cue bid. When she then bid 5 it was clear we were not on the same wavelength and the bidding stopped there.

Once partner bid 3 it seems like a textbook case for using control cuebids.

[...] 3-4-4 and you know partner's values are wasted. 4 and all pass.
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#12 User is offline   wuudturner 

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Posted 2021-February-13, 17:08

I have standards for what I am willing to call a reverse. This won't cut it. Why reverse on a hand where only 5 of your 16 points lie in your two suits? Your diamonds are ratty. Your hearts, well, execrable. Most of your high card points are in your shortest suits. BLECH. This is just not a reverse.

It is a perfect hand for 1NT.
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#13 User is offline   morecharac 

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Posted 2021-February-14, 00:06

It's late at night and I just misread the subtitle of the topic as "brain wreck".
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#14 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2021-February-15, 16:49

View PostAL78, on 2021-February-13, 16:15, said:

I would if playing a strong NT or opened 1 followed by 1NT if playing a weak NT. I wouldn't have classed the hand as good enough to reverse.

Neither would I.
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I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
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