[AL78]

This hand came up in a club teams event last Friday. I had the chance to use a gadget that almost never comes up (2NT response to 1NT to show 5-5 in the minors). How would you bid on these cards and can you find a grand in either minor, or even 7NT assuming no opposition inteference? Dealer West.

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[Cyberyeti]

How would we actually bid this ? we play weak no trump so:

1♣-2♦ (rock crushing single suiter or good 5 card diamonds and 4 clubs to at least the Q, GF
2♠(nat)-3♥(fit type, cue)
3♠(cue)-4♦(kickback)
4♥(0/3)-4♠(Q♣?)
4N(yes, no side K but something extra, on this auction, almost certainly ♦Q, but might be source of tricks in ♠, AQJx or similar)-5♦(looking for Q)
7♣-7N (I know about the 3 aces and the 2 Qs, I can count 13)

Adapting what we play to strong NT:

1N-2♠(weak with one minor or at least minor slam interest with both)
2N(<4♦, <5♣)-3N(GF at least some slam interest 5-5, NF)
4♣-4♦(kickback)
4♥(0/3)-4♠(Q♣?)
4N(no side K but extras, will be a Q and if not in diamonds will be AQJx in a major)-5♦(any help?)
7♣-7N

[shyams]

 AL78, on 2021-January-29, 06:13, said:

Dealer West.

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If playing with GIB (my current regular partner )
me (W) - GIB (E)
1NT - 2♠ ...Minor suit Stayman
3♣ - 3♠ ...Splinter (agrees ♣)
4NT - 5♥
5♠** - 6♣ ...see below
pass

** 5♠ is a cue bid (shows ♠A and asks GIB to cue with extras). Unfortunately, my experience has been that East GIB will never voluntarily bid grand. It is also reluctant to bypass 6♣ to show any other extras. If the minors were the other way around, I think GIB would cue back 6♣ over 5♠ which would allow West to reevaluate.

If playing with a regular partner (from some years ago)
me (W) - pard (E)
1NT - 2♠ ...Minor suit Stayman
3♣ - 3♦ ...Misstating hand as 6♦-4♣*
4NT - 5♥ ...RKC in diamonds; 2 KC no ♦Q
5NT - 7♣/7♦ ...It's possible pard would bid 7♣ as a choice of slams; otherwise he'd bid 7♦
pass

*partner was creative enough to deliberately introduce such a bid because the ♦Q is an important card. We had a way to revert to club slam with no diamond fit. If I held the East hand in this partnership, we might reach a grand slam (if at all) by chance than via a proper/scientific sequence.

[Winstonm]

 shyams, on 2021-January-29, 08:25, said:

If playing with GIB (my current regular partner )
me (W) - GIB (E)
1NT - 2♠ ...Minor suit Stayman
3♣ - 3♠ ...Splinter (agrees ♣)
4NT - 5♥
5♠** - 6♣ ...see below
pass

** 5♠ is a cue bid (shows ♠A and asks GIB to cue with extras). Unfortunately, my experience has been that East GIB will never voluntarily bid grand. It is also reluctant to bypass 6♣ to show any other extras. If the minors were the other way around, I think GIB would cue back 6♣ over 5♠ which would allow West to reevaluate.

If playing with a regular partner (from some years ago)
me (W) - pard (E)
1NT - 2♠ ...Minor suit Stayman
3♣ - 3♦ ...Misstating hand as 6♦-4♣*
4NT - 5♥ ...RKC in diamonds; 2 KC no ♦Q
5NT - 7♣/7♦ ...It's possible pard would bid 7♣ as a choice of slams; otherwise he'd bid 7♦
pass

*partner was creative enough to deliberately introduce such a bid because the ♦Q is an important card. We had a way to revert to club slam with no diamond fit. If I held the East hand in this partnership, we might reach a grand slam (if at all) by chance than via a proper/scientific sequence.

Back in the days when I could still play reasonably well, Judy and I would have bid this way:

1N-2S*
3C-3D**
3H-4H
4S-4N***
5D****-5N*****
7C

*MSS (game force)
**key bid to show quality trick-source suit and slam interest
*** general slam try - do you have more to say?
**** I have a filler card for your diamond suit
***** Hot damn! GSF

[fromageGB]

1NT(15/16) - 2♠(asking for 4 card minor)
3♣(yes, clubs) - 4♦(ace ask)
5♣(4 or 0 of AAAAKQ) - 5NT(forcing to 6♣, not interested in kings, looking for help for 7 )(5♣ has to be 4, not 0)
7♣(have help, the Q♦ is gold dust as responder has both minors (if not would have transferred to clubs))
- 7NT (stops an opening club ruff)

[apollo1201]

With my partner if she’s in shape (we transfer to C then bid 3D to show 55m GF)

1NT (15-17) - 2S as per method

2NT (I like your C and we could well be running 9 tricks in NT even if you’re weakish but with good C) - 3D (thanks p, but I am 55 GF )

4D (great, I also have sth for you there and anyway I m not playing 3NT with 2 blank M aces) - 4NT (we don’t play 6KBW but maybe it should there, so 5 keys)

5C (3) - 5H (Q ask, avoiding confusion)

5NT (yes and no K) - 7NT (3 A + QC only make 14 and you said you had sth in D that can only be the Q, we are good for 13 tricks, and f*** the guy who has Jxxx C)

[nige1]

SL78 'This hand came up in a club teams event last Friday. I had the chance to use a gadget that almost never comes up (2NT response to 1NT to show 5-5 in the minors). How would you bid on these cards and can you find a grand in either minor, or even 7NT assuming no opposition interference? Dealer West.'
++++++++++++++++++++

Jim Forsyth, a masochistic partner, volunteered to try out the Jasmine STR 1♣system
which occasionally might reach 7!C via the somewhat contrived auction on the left

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[pescetom]

We play 1NT-3♦ as minors 5-5 game forcing, so it might go:

1NT - 3♦
4♣ - 4♦ (RKCB)
4♠ (03) - 4NT (Q?)
6♣ (Q, no side K, some extra) - 7♣.

6♣ shows some extra but no guarantee it is in diamonds. Thinking about it, it would be tempting as W to show the ♦K: if partner has it he should be able to figure out it shows the Q and if he doesn't have it then Q instead of K might make no difference anyway. Not with my current partner however

[nullve]

---

nullve-nullve:

1♣(1)-1♠(2)
1N(3)-2♣(4)
2♦(5)-2♥(6)
2♠(7)-3♦(8)
3♥(9)-4♦(10)
4♥(11)-4♠(12)
5♦(13)-5♥(14)
5♠(15)-6♦(16)
6♠(17)-7♣(18)
7N(19)-P

(1) "NAT(ish) unBAL or 11-13/17-19/23+ BAL"
(2) "D or BAL" (T-Walsh-style) but denying 7-12 BAL
(3) "11-13/17-19 BAL" or "10-12/16-18 unBAL"
(4) unBAL GF w/ primary D (but 4H4D(41) possible)
(5) relay
(6) "13-15"
(7) relay
(8) 5D5C2-H or 4H4D(41)
(9) relay
(10) (21)55
(11) Parity Key Card Blackwood agreeing C
(12) even # of key cards
(13) 2155 ask (treating 2155 as the next card in the spiral after the trump Q)
(14) not 2155 (so 1255)
(15) ♦K ask
(16) ♦K and ♥K, no ♦Q
(17) ♦J ask
(18) ♦J, no ♥J
(19) contract

[AL78]

 nullve, on 2021-January-30, 10:01, said:

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nullve-nullve:

1♣(1)-1♠(2)
1N(3)-2♣(4)
2♦(5)-2♥(6)
2♠(7)-3♦(8)
3♥(9)-4♦(10)
4♥(11)-4♠(12)
5♦(13)-5♥(14)
5♠(15)-6♦(16)
6♠(17)-7♣(18)
7N(19)-P

(1) "NAT(ish) unBAL or 11-13/17-19/23+ BAL"
(2) "D or BAL" (T-Walsh-style) but denying 7-12 BAL
(3) "11-13/17-19 BAL" or "10-12/16-18 unBAL"
(4) unBAL GF w/ primary D (but 4H4D(41) possible)
(5) relay
(6) "13-15"
(7) relay
(8) 5D5C2-H or 4H4D(41)
(9) relay
(10) (21)55
(11) Parity Key Card Blackwood agreeing C
(12) even # of key cards
(13) 2155 ask (treating 2155 as the next card in the spiral after the trump Q)
(14) not 2155 (so 1255)
(15) ♦K ask
(16) ♦K and ♥K, no ♦Q
(17) ♦J ask
(18) ♦J, no ♥J
(19) contract

Blimey, by the time you have finished the bidding the director calls the move .

What system is that?

[mycroft]

Yes, but having played a similar system, usually when you have these 6 minute auctions to grand, you can claim at trick 1 - or, if you're cheeky or playing against friends, before the opening lead. On this one, given you're off ♣JT9x, you're going to have to win the first trick and play a club before you can claim. So trick 2 (or trick 7 - it's probably worth running the diamonds and hoping they pitch a club, which they won't, unless it was working anyway).

[Lovera]

I think it might be helpful to have the bidding as it unfolded at the table. However, I think, seeing that others go the other way, that the "Four-way transfer" should be adopted where I in GBD open my topic (which you can find for to view the discussion by placing my nickname in the search box of the sub-Forum) . So the bid should at least go: 1NT-2NT (for diamond), 3 ♣ (superaccept) -3 ♥ (= ♠ are covered?), 3NT (= yes) and after proceeding via RKB (the system provided for the 6RKB which I, to lighten up, do not contemplate).

[nullve]

 AL78, on 2021-January-30, 10:17, said:

What system is that?

1♣: similar to the "NAT or BAL" 1♣ opening of many 2/1-like systems but includes 23+ BAL and GF primary C hands
1♠,1N: inspired by a version of T-Walsh suggested by helene_t (and which should be standard IMVHO)
2♣,...,4♦: part of my home-grown range-first relay structure (most relayers would hate it, but I think it fits better than Symmetric Relay into a 2/1-like system)
4♥,4♠: PKC sequence (I guess Ulf Nilsson (ulven on BBO) came up with the name 'Parity Key Card (Blackwood)').
5♦,5♥: including shapes in the spiral might be a new idea
5♠,6♦,6♠,7♣: standard spiral scan, I guess

[AL78]

 Lovera, on 2021-January-30, 11:51, said:

I think it might be helpful to have the bidding as it unfolded at the table. However, I think, seeing that others go the other way, that the "Four-way transfer" should be adopted where I in GBD open my topic (which you can find for to view the discussion by placing my nickname in the search box of the sub-Forum) . So the bid should at least go: 1NT-2NT (for diamond), 3 ♣ (superaccept) -3 ♥ (= ♠ are covered?), 3NT (= yes) and after proceeding via RKB (the system provided for the 6RKB which I, to lighten up, do not contemplate).

It wouldn't be helpful.

1NT - 2NT (5-5 both minors)
P

Partner forgot the convention, and defaulted to assuming it meant exactly 8 HCP, which is what she plays with a couple of other people. This arguably is my fault, don't use a convention which you discussed well over a year ago and has never come up since. This wasn't a bad as it could have been, the other table played in 3NT so "only" a 10 imp loss.

[Lovera]

 AL78, on 2021-January-30, 12:10, said:

It wouldn't be helpful.

1NT - 2NT (5-5 both minors)
P

Partner forgot the convention, and defaulted to assuming it meant exactly 8 HCP, which is what she plays with a couple of other people. This arguably is my fault, don't use a convention which you discussed well over a year ago and has never come up since. This wasn't a bad as it could have been, the other table played in 3NT so "only" a 10 imp loss.

I started my topic also because I had seen that, it had been said, it would be adopted in the (then) near future and in anticipation of this having seen how the system was developed precisely to better spread I tried to "smooth it out" a little make it less specific (read play it with a partner who knows the system) with more "usual" biddings.

[akwoo]

My weak NT partnership:

1C - 1D
1N - 3C
4C - 4N
5D - 7C

3C is 5/5 minors, slam interest
4C is minorwood
4N is 2 with the Q
5D confirms all keycards and asks for kings

My Precision partnership:
1C - 2C(1)
2D(2) - 3C(3)
3D(4) - 4C(5)
4D(6) - 5C(7)
7D

(1) - usually 5+ diamonds unbalanced
(2) - confirms diamonds, asks
(3) - 2 of 3 top honors, exactly 5 diamonds
(4) - asks
(5) - 5 controls (A=2, K=1)
(6) - asks shortness
(7) - spade shortness

My Std Am partnership probably plays 3N.

[Lovera]

 AL78, on 2021-January-30, 12:10, said:

It wouldn't be helpful.

1NT - 2NT (5-5 both minors)
P

Partner forgot the convention, and defaulted to assuming it meant exactly 8 HCP, which is what she plays with a couple of other people. This arguably is my fault, don't use a convention which you discussed well over a year ago and has never come up since. This wasn't a bad as it could have been, the other table played in 3NT so "only" a 10 imp loss.

I was very pleased to receive these words of appreciation for the work I have done and meeting people of this type is to be hoped that it will happen more often for everyone.

[Zelandakh]

1♣ = 15+ nat/bal; or 18+ any
... - 1♠ = 0-3♥, 0-3♠, GF
2♣ = 15-17 bal
... - 2NT = 5+♣, 5+♦
3♣ = agrees ♣
... - 3♥ = serious SI, ♥ ask
4♣ = controls in both majors but not ♦
... - 4♦ = RKCB(♣)
4♥ = 0 or 3 kc
... - 4♠ = ♣Q?
4NT = ♣Q, no ♠K
... - 5NT = need something else outside of kings
6♦ = ♦Q
... - 7NT

In my preferred NT methods, 5+♣ 5+♦ with slam interest is bid via: 1NT - 2♠; 3♣(max) - 3♠, which loses the heart asking bid but otherwise gets to a similar point.