[Echognome]

Scoring: MP

1♦(1) - 2♦ (2)
2♠ - 3♥
4♥ - 4♠ (3)
4NT (4) - 5♥ (5)
6NT - All Pass

---

(1) 17+
(2) 4 controls (A = 2, K = 1)
(3) 1st or 2nd round control (cannot be shortness in partner's suit)
(4) RKCB
(5) 2 keycards (for hearts) without the Q

We were able to find the top Matchpoint spot of 6NT. Some friends of ours playing a natural system only found game and wanted to know how they should find 6♥.

Their auction went:

1♠ - 2♥
3♣ - 3♥
4♥ - All Pass

South manufactured a 3♣ bid which at least had the merit of being GF. We suggested 4♣ would be better if a cuebid. If playing splinters (which they were), then East has a difficult rebid. Also, West is probably worth a try of 4♠ after 4♥, except they are only playing first round controls. Anyone have an auction using natural bidding (I'm assuming the relay bidders won't have much problem) and good judgment that will get you to 6♥ or ideally to 6NT? You are allowed cue-bids, but only 1st round controls on the first round of cue-bidding.

[mike777]

I assume 2h is not game force and so 3h is not game force?

1s=2h=3nt(18-19)=6nt(heck it is MP not bridge). bid 6nt with 7 card suit.

[Echognome]

Yes sorry. You are playing Acol (or SAYC for that matter), where 2/1 is not GF.

[Winstonm]

This makes sense.

1S-2H
3H-3S*
4C*-4H
4N*-5H
6N*

3S* Key bid. Shows a minimum hand still suitable for slam. Secondary support cue bid - Ax, Kx, Qx or bettter. With good HCP and interest, would instead cue bid 3N.
4C* first or second round control. Confirms slam interest.
4H no diamond control
4N* RKCB for hearts. Guarantees diamond control
6N* For his bidding, pard should hold either 6+ hearts or the club King.

[mike777]

Winstonm, on Jun 18 2005, 09:47 AM, said:

This makes sense.

1S-2H
3H-3S*
4C*-4H
4N*-5H
6N*

3S* Key bid.  Shows a minimum hand still suitable for slam.  Secondary support cue bid - Ax, Kx, Qx or bettter.  With good HCP and interest, would instead cue bid 3N.
4C* first or second round control.  Confirms slam interest.
4H no diamond control
4N* RKCB for hearts.  Guarantees diamond control
6N* For his bidding, pard should hold either 6+ hearts or the club King.

cannot bid 3H, that can be passed in this system .

[EricK]

Playing an Acolish type of system I would bid it

1♠ 2♥
2NT i 3♥
3♠ ii 4♣ ii
4♦ ii 4♠ ii
4NT iii 5♥ iv
6NT

i. GF in most modern versions of Acol
ii. Cue bids
iii RKB
iv 2 keycards, no ♥Q

Eric

[Winstonm]

Quote

cannot bid 3H that can be passed in this system

Oops. Glad I don't have to bid like this, then.

[Echognome]

Yes. In Acol a 2NT rebid shows 15-17, so after a 2/1 should be GF. I think that would be a decent start. Responder then needs to make sure they get past game. A checkback for 3 card heart support might help.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

one possible and reasonable auction playing Acol
could be

1S - 2H
3C (1) - 4H (2)
4NT (2) - 5H (3)
6H

(1) I like the suggestion to bid 2NT,
although I understand, why it was not bid,
Souths sees the fit
(2) I dont like 3H, North wants to play 4H,
he should bid it
(3) RKBC
All suits are contolled, playing a no frills
system, one has to be bold, if one wants to
reach such slams
(4) 2 Key Cards

Marlowe

PS: since after a diamond lead, not unlikely after the auction
the slam is only 50%, I would not worry to much.

[P_Marlowe]

EricK, on Jun 18 2005, 10:23 AM, said:

Playing an Acolish type of system I would bid it

1♠    2♥
2NT i      3♥
3♠ ii  4♣ ii
4♦ ii  4♠ ii
4NT iii    5♥ iv
6NT

i. GF in most modern versions of Acol
ii. Cue bids
iii RKB
iv 2 keycards, no ♥Q

Eric

Hopefully you can explain, why you choosed 6NT
in contrast to 6H, your 6-3 fit, when partner holds
the ace of diamond instead of the ace of hearts
and they lead a club.
As far as I see, in your auction North does not deny the
ace of diamond.

Marlowe

[MickyB]

Obvious to rebid in NT IMO, with flat 15 and 4 card support you will bid 4H over 2H so an auction like 1S:2H, 2N:3N, 4H would show extras. Over 2N responder will bid 3H, then there should be no problems reaching slam.

[EricK]

P_Marlowe, on Jun 19 2005, 04:22 PM, said:

EricK, on Jun 18 2005, 10:23 AM, said:

Playing an Acolish type of system I would bid it

1♠    2♥
2NT i      3♥
3♠ ii  4♣ ii
4♦ ii  4♠ ii
4NT iii    5♥ iv
6NT

i. GF in most modern versions of Acol
ii. Cue bids
iii RKB
iv 2 keycards, no ♥Q

Eric

Hopefully you can explain, why you choosed 6NT
in contrast to 6H, your 6-3 fit, when partner holds
the ace of diamond instead of the ace of hearts
and they lead a club.
As far as I see, in your auction North does not deny the
ace of diamond.

Marlowe

You are right in that partner could have ♦A and not ♥A, but the odds are against it. Firstly, the ♥ are much longer than the ♦. Secondly if partner had controls in all the suits he would likely have bid Blackwood himself rather than make the 4♠ cue-bid. Thirdly, with a weakish ♥ suit partner might have chosen a different sequence rather than rebid the ♥ suit. Fourthly, if I bid 6♥ I might have to explain how I went down on a ruff when there are 12 top tricks.

I wish I could have been certain tof the keycards partner held, but this is MP and so I went with the odds.

Eric

[Wackojack]

EricK, on Jun 18 2005, 10:23 AM, said:

Playing an Acolish type of system I would bid it

1♠    2♥
2NT i      3♥
3♠ ii  4♣ ii
4♦ ii  4♠ ii
4NT iii    5♥ iv
6NT

i. GF in most modern versions of Acol
ii. Cue bids
iii RKB
iv 2 keycards, no ♥Q

Eric

I thought of your auction up to 4NT Eric. Then, I asked myself: Which suit for RKC? It seems to be subtle reasoning for the heart suit: 4S shows the king so 4NT must be more interested in the heart key cards. Would my partner work this out and trust that I had worked it out? Would he/she be confident that I had the heart king? Well I suppose this is the Advanced and Expert-Class bridge

[EricK]

Wackojack, on Jun 19 2005, 11:44 PM, said:

EricK, on Jun 18 2005, 10:23 AM, said:

Playing an Acolish type of system I would bid it

1♠    2♥
2NT i      3♥
3♠ ii  4♣ ii
4♦ ii  4♠ ii
4NT iii    5♥ iv
6NT

i. GF in most modern versions of Acol
ii. Cue bids
iii RKB
iv 2 keycards, no ♥Q

Eric

I thought of your auction up to 4NT Eric. Then, I asked myself: Which suit for RKC? It seems to be subtle reasoning for the heart suit: 4S shows the king so 4NT must be more interested in the heart key cards. Would my partner work this out and trust that I had worked it out? Would he/she be confident that I had the heart king? Well I suppose this is the Advanced and Expert-Class bridge

2NT showed a balanced hand (i.e at least some support for all suits), 3♥ stresses the ♥ suit, and a 3♠ cue-bid is a co-operative move towards a ♥ slam. All this makes ♥ the agreed suit for RKB.

Eric

[Wackojack]

If I were opener, I would like to avoid rebidding 2NT with a singleton, but with a 5143 shape poor spades and 15-16HCP this is what I would have to bid. Even with a good spade suit with say S AQJ10x, H x, D KJxx, C Axx would you not still bid 2NT? Playing weak no-trump and not 2/1 I certainly would.

[sceptic]

what is wrong with 1spade 4 club (splinter) ? you have nice spade support and the hearts there is no guarentee of a fit, so why look, if 2 hearts is not forcing?

[mr1303]

2H IS forcing. Just not game forcing.

And a splinter promises 4 trumps, since 1S only promises 4 in Acol.

Although all this goes to show what a terrible system Acol is when you have to bid 3C to manufacture a force rather than show support immediately.

[P_Marlowe]

mr1303, on Jun 20 2005, 07:18 AM, said:

2H IS forcing. Just not game forcing.

And a splinter promises 4 trumps, since 1S only promises 4 in Acol.

Although all this goes to show what a terrible system Acol is when you have to bid 3C to manufacture a force rather than show support immediately.

Acol is fine.

But slam bidding is not the strongest part of Acol.

Marlowe

PS: Due to lack of partners, I started playing 5 card
mayors, but as long as I played Acol, I felt ok.