[Laplace0]

How to bid as responder a weak hand (6 to 9) with 4-4 in the majors?

[Stephen Tu]

Respond 1H. If opener rebids 1nt, pass. If opener bids 1S, raise.

If opener is allowed/required to bypass 4 card spade suit to rebid 1nt (a style decision that will win in some cases and lose in others), you have missed a 4-4 spade fit. Oh well. This will often be (but not always) a losing position, the price you pay for this style.

[fromageGB]

The title "two way checkback" is confusing me. Is the question "how to respond to a 1m open?" or "how to call after it has gone 1m 1♥ 1NT?" If the former then as Stephen says, but if the latter then I would have thought (not playing the convention myself) that 2♣ could be bid if responder considers his hand invitational, such as a good 8 count, or pass if not.

[mikeh]

I agree with Stephen.my only quibble is with his comment that opener bypassing a 4 card major, after 1m 1H, to rebid 1N will ‘often’ be a losing position is misleading, if he intends to suggest that it is a poor approach.

Missing a 4-4 spade fit will ‘often’ be a losing position when responder is weak with 4-4 in the majors, but those who play this style believe that it is far more often a winner on a multitude of other hand-types. Missing the occasional 4-4 spade fit is a very modest price to pay for the benefits that flow from this style.

Also, I agree with frontage in that two way check back has nothing to do with hands on which responder has 6-9 hcp. This is so regardless of his major suit shape

Two way check back is used after 1x 1y 1N. Responder has to have at least invitational values. With 4-4 majors and 6-9 hcp he simply passes and hopes partner can make 1N.

With invitational values, so roughly 11-12 hcp (assuming the 1N rebid showed 12-14), he bids 2C to force opener to bid 2D and then responder makes a natural bid which is p, by definition, invitational.

With game forcing values (or stronger) and doubt about strain or level (ie game or slam) responder bids 2D over 1N, and opener makes his cheapest descriptive bid. Then responder rebids a long suit, bids notrump, or shows another suit, all forcing to game.

So responder needs a lot more than 6-9 hcp in order to use two way check back

[Stephen Tu]

mikeh, on 2020-November-22, 11:39, said:

I agree with Stephen.my only quibble is with his comment that opener bypassing a 4 card major, after 1m 1H, to rebid 1N will 'often' be a losing position is misleading, if he intends to suggest that it is a poor approach.

I don't see why you quibble with my post. I said and meant exactly what you say. If you find that you have missed a 4-4 fit when responder is weak, this is often a losing position to be in. You have to make up for it on other boards. I never claimed one approach is clearly better than the other, only that after you find you have missed the 4-4 spade fit you rate to lose (a little or a lot, depending on form of scoring, and if it is difference between making/going down or merely between +110/+90) fairly often.

I said you are going to win on some hands and lose on others. These are most of the hands you lose on. I never made any claim on whether or not this is clearly more or less than the other hands, as frankly I am not convinced either way.

Quote

With invitational values, so roughly 11-12 hcp (assuming the 1N rebid showed 12-14), he bids 2C to force opener to bid 2D and then responder makes a natural bid which is p, by definition, invitational.

As an addendum a fairly large # of players play 1c-1h-1nt-2s to be 4-4 in the majors, invitational strength NF, so that going through 2c (1c-1h-1nt-2c!-2d!-2s) shows instead 4-5 in the majors.

[Laplace0]

Actually I agree with almost all comments. But I will continue to play TWCB with 6-9 points. Imagine such a 6-9 point hand with 5S and 4H. So, 1C-1S-1N-2H is playable as signoff with a 5=4 major distribution. Same with a 6-9 point hand with a 5+card major, where 1C-1M-1N-2M can be played as signoff. Anyway, thanks all for the replies.

[mikeh]

Laplace0, on 2020-November-22, 14:27, said:

Actually I agree with almost all comments. But I will continue to play TWCB with 6-9 points. Imagine such a 6-9 point hand with 5S and 4H. So, 1C-1S-1N-2H is playable as signoff with a 5=4 major distribution. Same with a 6-9 point hand with a 5+card major, where 1C-1M-1N-2M can be played as signoff. Anyway, thanks all for the replies.

I don’t think you understand what two way checkback means. It has nothing to do with 1minor 1S 1N 2H That sequence is, unless playing a convention known as meckwell, showing 5 spades and 4-5 hearts, with less than invitational values so usually about 5-10 hcp. It is not, in any way, two way checkback.

[Laplace0]

Lets call A your definition of TWCB and B the bidding sequences described for weak 5-9 majors hands. I and many others call the union A U B as TWBC. You and many others prefer to exclude B and give them another name or let unnamed. Fine, but I would never dare to claim you have not understand TWCB. Anyway thanks for the reply.

[sfi]

Laplace0, on 2020-November-22, 14:27, said:

Actually I agree with almost all comments. But I will continue to play TWCB with 6-9 points. Imagine such a 6-9 point hand with 5S and 4H. So, 1C-1S-1N-2H is playable as signoff with a 5=4 major distribution. Same with a 6-9 point hand with a 5+card major, where 1C-1M-1N-2M can be played as signoff. Anyway, thanks all for the replies.

These are not only playable as signoffs, that is by far the most common meaning in both auctions. You do need some sort of a way to invite over a 1NT rebid from partner, but these will almost always be some sort of conventional agreement which includes artificial meanings for 2C and/or 2D. Two-way checkback is just one of a family of conventions which are used after 1x-1y-1NT.

[JonnyQuest]

Laplace0, on 2020-November-22, 03:23, said:

How to bid as responder a weak hand (6 to 9) with 4-4 in the majors?

Respond 1♥. Do not use 2-way Checkback.