[MickyB]

Scoring: IMP

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Pard and I managed to bid this to 6♥ which can make but won't (Qx of trumps offside).

How would you bid these hands? We were playing Acol, so a reverse shows about 15 points.
Which slam is better?
How does 1♥:2♦, 3♥:3N, 4♣ differ from 1♥:2♦, 3♣:3N, 4♥? Not that either of these auctions occured, just wondering...

[mike777]

1H=2D
2H=3C
4C=now clubs are set.

1) Hand not worth a jump to 3h at first bid
2) With great 7 card h suit and junky 4 card club suit I rebid 2H to show where my main values are. Note 2h is 6 card suit or very strong 5 card suit with no other rebid.
3) Getting to 6H is not the worst slam in the world.

[Echognome]

Hearts looks better to me. Even if you misguess hearts (looks like you should finesse), you have 3 entries to dummy (2 spades and 1 club) which you can use to rough diamonds (and perhaps isolate the diamond menace). Then when you run all your hearts you might have a minor suit-squeeze in addition to the chances of taking all of the clubs with the normal finesse.

In the club slam you have to worry about a bad club break if you get forced in diamonds. (Since you well then be ruffing with long trumps for the extra chance in hearts.)

[MickyB]

mike777, on Jun 6 2005, 08:55 PM, said:

1H=2D
2H=3C
4C=now clubs are set.

1) Hand not worth a jump to 3h at first bid
2) With great 7 card h suit and junky 4 card club suit I rebid 2H to show where my main values are.

2♥ is non-forcing in Acol, IMO the hand is too strong for that.

Edit: Ok, I asked "How would you bid it?" so fair enough

This post has been edited by MickyB: 2005-June-06, 13:58

[mike777]

MickyB, on Jun 6 2005, 02:56 PM, said:

mike777, on Jun 6 2005, 08:55 PM, said:

1H=2D
2H=3C
4C=now clubs are set.

1) Hand not worth a jump to 3h at first bid
2) With great 7 card h suit and junky 4 card club suit I rebid 2H to show where my main values are.

2♥ is non-forcing in Acol, IMO the hand is too strong for that.

Edit: Ok I asked "How would you bid it?" so far enough

I would still rebid 2H in Acol, partner promises a rebid with 2D but not g/f, yes? Now you find clubs.

[MickyB]

There are people who have this sequence promise a rebid, but not many - you need to make 2/1s on 9 points to find 3N opposite 15-16 balanced, so if opener makes a minimum rebid it may well be your last chance for a plus score. Many even play 1♥:2♣, 2♦ as non-forcing

[Winstonm]

I don't have a problem with the bidding - as Reese always said, it's better usually to play these unwieldy hands in the long suit. But I have a question about the play. As an immediate heart finesse still doesn't allow you to pick up Qxxx - in fact it only wins with Qxx, Qx, Q onside - it is better to play for any singleton or doubleton heart Q so hearts from the top followed by the finesse in clubs seems the better line. This, it would seem, would allow you to make anytime the club is onside, 50%, and another 12.5% of the time when the club finesse fails, or a total of 62.5%. This, it would seem, is a very reasonable slam to reach.

WinstonM

[MickyB]

In 6♥, playing hearts from the top gains when there is Q or Qx offside, the finesse gains when there is Qxx onside. 3-2 either side is about 68%, 4-1 about 28%, so the finesse gains on 3/10*68% = 20.4% of cases, the drop gains in 2/10*68%+1/10*28% = 16.4% of cases. They both succeed when Q or Qx is onside, which is an additional 16.4%. So yes, combined with the club finesse and a possible minor suit squeeze it is a pretty decent slam. Roland would be in at least seven!

[Winstonm]

Quote

Roland would be in at least seven!

And he would probably make it! LoL.

As you can see, math was not my strong point in school. I could be wrong, but it seems immediate finesse gains with the precise holding of Qxx onside; 20.3% of the time. Playing hearts from the top gains 16.4% of the time, and by playing hearts in this fashion you can eliminate one possibility and that is Qxxxx of clubs with the Q, Qx, Qxx and suffering a club ruff...probably insignificant....but the good spot cards allow you to cash one high club first, after the trumps are drawn, raising the total to bring in the club suit to 52.8%. So either way, it's a pretty darn good slam.

WinstonM

[MickyB]

Ah but your honest Justin, now we might trust your other posts

[whereagles]

Jlall, on Jun 6 2005, 09:16 PM, said:

1H-2D
2H-2N
3H-3N
4H-p

LOL. I'm actually sure this is how the auction would go if i was playing with myself...man i really suck

Don't worry. I would do even "worse" playing with myself:

1♥ 2♦
4♥ pass

[Fluffy]

Jlall, on Jun 6 2005, 09:16 PM, said:

1H-2D
2H-2N
3H-3N
4H-p

LOL. I'm actually sure this is how the auction would go if i was playing with myself...man i really suck

Well man you didn't had the chance to to raise ♣s. I suck even more, mine would be:


1♥-2♦
2♥-3♣
3♥-4♥

[MickyB]

Lol, you've got to love this competitiveness...anyone going to claim that they would stop in a part-score?

[Free]

1♦ - 1♥ (4+♥ - relay)
3NT - 4♣ (2-7-0-4 and 'max' - relay)
4♠ - 4NT (7 Slampoints - relay)
5♦ - 6♣ (1/2 tophonours ♥, 0/3 tophonours ♣ - to play)

6♣ in the 4-4 is much safer imo, so no need to gamble with ♥s.