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BBO,ACBL, and the C word acbl hearings

#1 User is offline   pigpenz 

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Posted 2020-October-12, 10:53

read this over on BridgeWinners and there was a link to ACBL hearings on suspicious activity.

https://www.acbl.org...earing-reports/

it was interesting almost all have occurred since we started more online activity during covid crisis.
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#2 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2020-October-12, 12:23

Kudos to ACBL for at least taking some action when others (like Polish federation) consider BBO cheating too trivial to punish even when the culprit owns up.
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#3 User is online   AL78 

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Posted 2020-October-12, 12:49

Well it is easier to cheat online. Online activity can bring out the worst in people. I noticed many of the names on the list in that link look like married couples. I know one or two people at my club suspect cheating goes on by those pairs who live together.
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#4 User is offline   Douglas43 

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Posted 2020-October-13, 22:18

The English Bridge Union encourages reports of suspicion and has set up a panel to investigate allegations. Information is on the EBU website at https://www.ebu.co.uk/node/3898 and https://www.ebu.co.uk/node/3903

In August it announced: "As reported in this month’s English Bridge an EBU Disciplinary Committee recently considered charges against [name given in original] under paragraph 3.2(iv) of the EBU Disciplinary Rules, for unfair or dishonest play and imposed a sanction on him of a two-year ban from participation in EBU competitions.

This arose from a number of online sessions on the Bridgebase Online (BBO) platform between March and June 2020 where he was aware of the layout of the hands when playing. This was achieved by ‘self-kibitzing’: when playing under one BBO username, he was watching the sessions logged in under a different username, and could thereby see all four hands."
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#5 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2020-October-14, 06:00

View Postpigpenz, on 2020-October-12, 10:53, said:

read this over on BridgeWinners and there was a link to ACBL hearings on suspicious activity.

https://www.acbl.org...earing-reports/

it was interesting almost all have occurred since we started more online activity during covid crisis.


Well, yes. In live play cheating is virtually always collusive. How would you or your partners react if asked to create a system of cheating? But in BBO you can do it by yourself.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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#6 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2020-October-14, 09:01

View PostDouglas43, on 2020-October-13, 22:18, said:

In August it announced: "As reported in this month’s English Bridge an EBU Disciplinary Committee recently considered charges against [name given in original] under paragraph 3.2(iv) of the EBU Disciplinary Rules, for unfair or dishonest play and imposed a sanction on him of a two-year ban from participation in EBU competitions.

This arose from a number of online sessions on the Bridgebase Online (BBO) platform between March and June 2020 where he was aware of the layout of the hands when playing. This was achieved by ‘self-kibitzing’: when playing under one BBO username, he was watching the sessions logged in under a different username, and could thereby see all four hands."


It seems ingenuous of EBU to permit kibitzing of sessions, however. Or is there some bug/bypass that enables self-kibitzing even when the Director has specified no kibitzing for the tournament?
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#7 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2020-October-14, 09:13

View PostVampyr, on 2020-October-14, 06:00, said:

Well, yes. In live play cheating is virtually always collusive. How would you or your partners react if asked to create a system of cheating? But in BBO you can do it by yourself.


I agree that collusive cheating requires considerably more determination and premeditation, plus the hurdle that partner must also be so aligned.

I don't agree that in live play cheating is virtually always collusive, however. Precisely because there are many people prepared to cheat alone but not collusively I think the former type of cheating is predominant. Luckily I have not encountered (or at least recognised) many pairs cheating collusively, unless you count much coffee-housing under that term: but I have a fair list of individuals who will frequently enter the wrong score to their advantage, listen for the contract and score at another table, etc.
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#8 User is online   mycroft 

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Posted 2020-October-14, 13:10

I would suggest that most cheating IRL is not collusive.

  • deliberate coffeehousing
  • deliberate use of UI from partner, knowing (having been penalized for the same use before) that it's not legal
  • cold-decking or otherwise manipulating deals (Okay, this is ACBL-only, nobody else deals cards any more)
  • gaining access to hand records
  • attempting to overhear tables, or the "check scorecards while going for coffee" gambit
  • ...


I don't know where you put "deliberate passing of UI, expecting partner to get it" like staring at partner when giving a signal partner is supposed to notice, or looking at partner expectantly when playing a card looking for confirmation they're still on the right track, or variations in bidding, or... I think a lot of that is deliberate on the player's part and "not noticed" on partner's; I'm sure they haven't discussed it.

Much as I hate it, I don't consider WeaSeL (over preempts, or over unAnnounced NTs) to be cheating. For me, it has to be deliberate, and knowledgeable of its wrongness; as I frequently say, WeaSeL is one of the few conventions that works better if the players don't know they're playing it - they just act and react correctly naturally.
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#9 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2020-October-16, 14:12

View Postpigpenz, on 2020-October-12, 10:53, said:

it was interesting almost all have occurred since we started more online activity during covid crisis.

What's so interesting about that? The amount of online play has increased dramatically. And before this, the national bridge organizations had almost no interest in investigating online cheating or sanctioning players who were caught.

#10 User is offline   pigpenz 

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Posted 2020-October-19, 08:14

whats so interesting about that, what a relevant remark BARMAR
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#11 User is offline   gordontd 

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Posted 2020-October-19, 09:00

View Postpescetom, on 2020-October-14, 09:01, said:

It seems ingenuous of EBU to permit kibitzing of sessions, however.

We don't. Some of our clubs do though and some people setting up their own matches for leagues do even though it is against the regulations. Note that in the case reported, none of the games he played were run by the EBU.
Gordon Rainsford
London UK
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#12 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2020-October-19, 10:41

View Postgordontd, on 2020-October-19, 09:00, said:

We don't. Some of our clubs do though and some people setting up their own matches for leagues do even though it is against the regulations. Note that in the case reported, none of the games he played were run by the EBU.


Thanks for the clarification, it did seem odd.
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#13 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2020-October-24, 16:24

"In live play."

Are all the people who play on bbo dead?
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As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
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