[flytoox]

Vul.: None
Dealer: East

Sitting in South, you hold

S: X
H: AKJ8X
D: AQT9
C: AQX

auction goes as follows:

W N E S
-----1C (1)?

(2)Suppose you bid 1H, west passed, and pd responded with 1S, what do you bid now?

[mike777]

flytoox, on Jun 3 2005, 05:19 PM, said:

Vul.: None
Dealer: East

Sitting in South, you hold

S: X
H: AKJ8X
D: AQT9
C: AQX

auction goes as follows:

W N E S
-----1C (1)?

(2)Suppose you bid 1H, west passed, and pd responded with 1S, what do you bid now?

I have 20 HCP why can I not start with x?
I guess I bid 3nt now.

[Winstonm]

I now seem to have no alternative but 3N at this point; if partner bids 4S, he will get to play it.

Problem here as I see it is the initial action, i.e,. 1H. Although I'm not fond of 1 or even 2-suited doubles, here my hand is so powerful that I can't risk partner passing my 1H bid. The other problem with 1H, is that if partner can keep it alive with 1S, my cue bids now will sound like spade support and it will be next to impossible to convince partner otherwise.

Therefore, I have to start here with double. Over whatever partner bids, my next bid will be 2C, and this only announces now a powerful T.O. double - could be 1 suited, could be support - I'll clarify on my next bid.

The real difficulty is what to bid after:
1C-X-P-1S
P -2C-P-2S
P-?

If I cue bid again, pard may well interpret this as spade support and jump to 4S, so I think in this situation the only practical solution is a jump to 3N. Funny, but the same contract either way - but, and it's a big BUT, if partner could have bid 2H or 2D either the first or second time, then my second cuebid would confirm that as trumps and we could have a more intelligent auction.

WinstonM

[flytoox]

Winstonm, on Jun 3 2005, 10:48 PM, said:

I now seem to have no alternative but 3N at this point; if partner bids 4S, he will get to play it.

Problem here as I see it is the initial action, i.e,. 1H. Although I'm not fond of 1 or even 2-suited doubles, here my hand is so powerful that I can't risk partner passing my 1H bid. The other problem with 1H, is that if partner can keep it alive with 1S, my cue bids now will sound like spade support and it will be next to impossible to convince partner otherwise.

Therefore, I have to start here with double. Over whatever partner bids, my next bid will be 2C, and this only announces now a powerful T.O. double - could be 1 suited, could be support - I'll clarify on my next bid.

The real difficulty is what to bid after:
1C-X-P-1S
P -2C-P-2S
P-?

If I cue bid again, pard may well interpret this as spade support and jump to 4S, so I think in this situation the only practical solution is a jump to 3N. Funny, but the same contract either way - but, and it's a big BUT, if partner could have bid 2H or 2D either the first or second time, then my second cuebid would confirm that as trumps and we could have a more intelligent auction.

WinstonM

I think after your initial dbl, if pd bids 1S, you can bid 2H. I dont think 2C is much meaningful. It only gets things complicated.

[Winstonm]

[QUOTE]I think after your initial dbl, if pd bids 1S, you can bid 2H. I dont think 2C is much meaningful. It only gets things complicated.

It certainly could get things muddled up, but IMO it is a matter of how you play this double and new suit bid. I tend to play it 17+ and up, so it is a "telling" bid, not an "asking" type bid.

With xxxx, xx, xxx, xxxx, partner may pass - he is not required to keep the bidding alive just in case I have 20+, so the way I play the cue bid is required as an "all purpose I have a really strong hand" bid, and it could mean many things which I will clarify on my next bid.

WinstonM

[luke warm]

flytoox, on Jun 3 2005, 05:14 PM, said:

I think after your initial dbl, if pd bids 1S, you can bid 2H. I dont think 2C is much meaningful. It only gets things complicated.

for me, x then 2h shows 16-18.. 3h shows 19+, but i'd like another heart for that bid, it seems too one suited.. i guess it's possible tho.. if (1c) x (p) 1s (p) then 1nt shows 19-21.. 3nt isn't necessary unless you feel like it..

[mike777]

x and rebid 1nt

Showing 19-20 HCP, club stopper and balanced or semi balanced hand. wtp?
2H only shows 16-18
2C shows rockcrusher.

[flytoox]

mike777, on Jun 4 2005, 01:04 AM, said:

x and rebid 1nt

Showing 19-20 HCP, club stopper and balanced or semi balanced hand. wtp?
2H only shows 16-18
2C shows rockcrusher.

The problem with this is that if pd holds some so so 6 cards spades, he may jump to 4S after your 1N. Or you may miss the best heart contract. With balanced hand, I agree with dbl then 1N. But this hand is far different. I would rather bid dbl then 3N than dbl then 1N.

[HeartA]

flytoox, on Jun 3 2005, 06:14 PM, said:

I think after your initial dbl, if pd bids 1S, you can bid 2H. I dont think 2C is much meaningful. It only gets things complicated.

Though dbl and then simply bid a suit could be a little more than 18hcp, this hand is too much, especially after opener. I would cue-bid 2C or jump to 3H.

[TheoKole]

I would start with a negative double and then mention hearts and maybe diamonds in turn. For my partnership methods this would describe an 18+ point hand.

If the bidding goes 1C - X - P - 1S
P - 2H - P - 2S
P - 2NT

Partner is allowed to Pass 2 Hearts or 2 NT or correct to 3 hearts if he is broke and has a heart tolerance. (If he was "forced" to respond 1 spade with 4 small ones). If he truly has spades and about 6 points he'll go to 3NT.

The bidding may also go 1C - X - P - 1S
P - 2H - P - 3H (3D)
P - 4H (5D)

I would expect to make in both cases as the outstanding high card strength is marked to my right and in a diamond contract, partner will make the contract ruffing 2 spades and finessing the Q Clubs.

Cheers

[luke warm]

i guess it doesn't have to, justin... just so long as both parties have understandings.. the 2h thing comes from klinger's t/o double 'rules'

[Winstonm]

[QUOTE]why does X then 2H show 16-18? With 16 or 17 (depending on the 17) I would just overcall 1H.

Speaking for myself, Justin, when I say 17+ it isn't about HCP at all, but about strength of hand as a 1-suiter. For example, x, AKJ10xx, AKJ10, xx, is the hand I mean....don't want partner to pass 1H with J9xx, xx, xxx, Axxx. Add a little more strength, such as x, AKQ9xxx, AKJ10, xx and I would rebid 3H, in essesnce saying all I really need is a fit that and a card or some ruffing value.

WinstonM

[Fluffy]

1♥ looks ok, specially when partner bids 1♠ .

3♦ after 1♠.

[pmacfar]

How about :

1♣ - X - P - 1♠

P - 2♥ - P - 2♠

P - 3♦ ....? (new suit forcing)


Then partner can either bid his spade suit again or 3 ♥s to show that he has two cards support or 4♥ with three cards support.

[Winstonm]

[QUOTE] Usually in my experience if i have concentrated 2 suiters SOMEBODY will bid and its best to get your suits in

There is certainly a lot going for this way to play, not a small part is you don't have to be concerned about playing 1S doubled when you are really unbalanced with an offensive hand. Hmmm. Maybe I should reconsider.

Do you have a top end on a simple overcall?

Thanks,

WinstonM

[des42]

X