BBO Discussion Forums: BBO Robot Bidding - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

BBO Robot Bidding

#1 User is offline   arunmahesh 

  • Pip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 4
  • Joined: 2017-November-29

Posted 2020-September-15, 10:46

The BBO bidding stinks. First, I am not clear what system they are using. It is weird. Then the system makes such horrible mistakes that even a 10 year old beginning player would not.
0

#2 User is offline   wcneumann 

  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 13
  • Joined: 2017-November-21

Posted 2021-January-27, 00:21

And, the bidding hasn't gotten one iota better in the last 3+ years. The bidding system is OK. The explanations are just fine. The Robot bidding is beyond awful. Nothing ever gets better. Not even really stupid simple stuff like having the Robots come close to following the explanations. BBO should be embarrassed by the Robot bidding, but it's clear they really don't care.
0

#3 User is offline   mycroft 

  • Secretary Bird
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 7,054
  • Joined: 2003-July-12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Calgary, D18; Chapala, D16

Posted 2021-January-27, 09:21

And somehow, when robots fill in a half table in a club game, they regularly get 55% and third in section.

You're dealing with a player who's been playing their system for 30 years, and refuses to learn anything else, because they know what they play. You want to play with them? *You learn their system*, and play it. There are many players who are very good at that, and they do well (of course, they're also very good at confusing the robot opponents who believe them when they claim to play the robots' system. But that's a whole other skill).

Yes, they frequently don't bid like humans do, because they use DD analysis instead of thinking.
When I go to sea, don't fear for me, Fear For The Storm -- Birdie and the Swansong (tSCoSI)
0

#4 User is offline   pigpenz 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,553
  • Joined: 2005-April-25

Posted 2021-January-27, 11:04

you just learn to deal with it, if you shade your bids they will get you whether or not
you do....like mycroft said they are probably better than 80% of the players.
0

#5 User is offline   wcneumann 

  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 13
  • Joined: 2017-November-21

Posted 2021-February-01, 18:22

You've got to be kidding. The Robots frequently bid worse than someone that learned the game earlier in the week. Their bids are frequently far from what's advertised in the explanations. They almost always pass takeout doubles and bid over penalty doubles, even when the auction and explanation makes the meaning of a double quite clear.

While all of that is bad, what's worse is that there have been at best negligible improvements in the Robot bidding in the last several years. They defend and declare quite well. Their bidding is somewhat random and inconsistent with their explanations far too often. All easily fixed if the Robots would have to consider the explanations as part of their bidding algorithm.
0

#6 User is online   smerriman 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,720
  • Joined: 2014-March-15
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2021-February-01, 21:56

View Postwcneumann, on 2021-February-01, 18:22, said:

All easily fixed if the Robots would have to consider the explanations as part of their bidding algorithm.

For what it's worth, that would make the robots far, far, far worse.
0

#7 User is offline   jeigh 

  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 19
  • Joined: 2016-May-21

Posted 2021-February-03, 21:14

View Postsmerriman, on 2021-February-01, 21:56, said:

For what it's worth, that would make the robots far, far, far worse.


My usual caveat - not all that much of a bridge player. I rather suspect a large portion of the robots' success is that for players at my level, it's next to impossible to play against someone who psychs as often as not. Or seems to. Or seems to be clueless and random, whether it is or not. Or to play *with* someone like that.

For me, the only thing worse than the bidding (which is sometimes off by as much as 8-10 points from its own explanation) is the tendency of leading and carding that could only logically come from knowing what's in its partner's hand - K lead in a random suit would suggest, against a fair opponent using standard carding, that you can play the left-side hand for the Q absent obvious reasons otherwise (stiff in partner's suit, or partner has converted your takeout, etc.) But GIB near-*constantly* leads K from Kx.

Just feels to me, true or not, like E and W are often in cahoots and playing double-dummy. I *never* get killer leads or even logical ones, nor any sensible carding, from GIB when it's my *partner* and we're on defense. Never. And, of course, we already know there can be no card in my hand that I can play to influence GIB to make a sensible next move. Because of its complete inability to pretend to think or to follow any common, standard or even learnable method, I can't trust it at all.

*That*, I suspect, is why the robots do so well.

Frustrating enough that I've pretty nearly given up on bridge altogether. From what I see around, I believe lots of others feel the same. I'm sure the folks at BBO are real proud of that.
0

#8 User is online   smerriman 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,720
  • Joined: 2014-March-15
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2021-February-03, 22:08

I do find it rather amusing that despite the large majority of users complaining about how bad the robots are, there are still a minority who claim they must be cheating! I - and anyone else experienced with the robots - can guarantee you there is 0% chance they have unauthorized knowledge.

They do have significant flaws, but I'd still do better with one than the majority of pickup partners on BBO, so it's not surprising they perform well when compared to certain groups of humans.

The reason they the majority of the leads is pretty clearly detailed in Bird/Anthias' book. There's an odd exception when they make highly unusual leads that even that book couldn't explain, but the analysis that I did of these showed 80% of them failed miserably.
0

#9 User is offline   jeigh 

  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 19
  • Joined: 2016-May-21

Posted 2021-February-04, 12:25

View Postsmerriman, on 2021-February-03, 22:08, said:

I do find it rather amusing that despite the large majority of users complaining about how bad the robots are, there are still a minority who claim they must be cheating! I - and anyone else experienced with the robots - can guarantee you there is 0% chance they have unauthorized knowledge.

They do have significant flaws, but I'd still do better with one than the majority of pickup partners on BBO, so it's not surprising they perform well when compared to certain groups of humans.

The reason they the majority of the leads is pretty clearly detailed in Bird/Anthias' book. There's an odd exception when they make highly unusual leads that even that book couldn't explain, but the analysis that I did of these showed 80% of them failed miserably.


Just to be clear, I wasn't accusing GIB of cheating. That would be illogical, since nobody could gain from that unless they were betting on GIB against me! I just find its play so preposterously inconsistent that it's very uncomfortable trying to play against. For instance, whether those are leads that fail or not, they make it feel absolutely pointless for me to try to defend a hand or, often, declare one. If I'm going to fail miserably, I want it to be against a reliable opponent so I can learn something. Past few years, BBO certainly hasn't felt as if it was one. And it's pretty much no fun at all anymore.

(If I played with/against humans anymore, I imagine I'd be one of the pick-up partners who'd cause you to do worse than a robot, and you have all my sympathy for that :rolleyes: .)
0

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users