[Miss Trudy]

When I play an ACBL game on BBO, there are three cases I've noticed in which I do not receive BBO points or do not receive full points for my ACBL masterpoints.

1. Today I played in an ACBL Virtual Vacation game. When the scores initially popped up at end of game it showed percentages but masterpoints had not yet been assigned. When I later received masterpoints (which I learned of through ACBL Liveforclubs) those points never showed up on my BBO Masterpoints.

2. Earlier this summer I played an ACBL game on BBO that awarded triple masterpoints. However, on BBO I accrued only the single masterpoints and it never updated to the triple points.

3. When I play club games, not infrequently the masterpoints I receive (reported via Live For Clubs) increase after the initial calculation shown on BBO. However, BBO never adjusts the masterpoints up.

Is there a way to report masterpoints earned on BBO that have not accrued to the BBO account?

Even better, is there a plan for better communication between ACBL and BBO so that adjusted masterpoints are communicated to BBO and the accounts updated?

This is a real frustration in using BBO. For example, my partner and I played a $15 (each) ACBL game today, a large portion of which I know goes to BBO. It seems only fair that BBO would take the steps necessary to correctly credit the masterpoints from such a game.

Thank you!

[pilowsky]

Hi Miss Trudy
Interesting question
Have you checked this site? https://www.bridgeba...oints/index.php
You can see all of your masterpoints that you accrue for games played on the BBO site here. And anyone else's for that matter - broken down by event and date they were won.
Anything that you play elsewhere does not appear here.
I am an Australian player. If I play in an Australian tournament on BBO I get BBO points and ABF points separately. The 'exchange rate' works out at 3.5:1
This means I have to divide my BBO points by 3.5 to see what they are worth in Australian money.

The same is true for ACBL points (I am also an ACBL member).

What I do not know is if offline ACBL points can be ported into BBO. Certainly, offline ABF points cannot be ported into BBO.

In many ways, it is a shame that there is not a single international 'masterpoint bureau de change. A very famous Champion who came to Australia for a while became the number one 'rookie' in 2019 because this system does not exist.
Seems like something BBO could offer as a service to the community n'est pas?

[Miss Trudy]

Hello pilowsky,
I am not trying to port ACBL points earned outside BBO into BBO, which I'm quite sure is not permitted.
I am trying to get credit on BBO for points earned there that aren't credited immediately at end of game, including when double points are offered, or points are adjusted following the end of the game.
I can look up the points BBO has credited to me using the Masterpoints button on my profile. However, I know for a fact it does not update points that change following the game or, as I mentioned, when I play and earn points that aren't posted immediately at end of game.
Thank you.

[pilowsky]

Miss Trudy, on 2020-August-30, 17:32, said:

I am not trying to port ACBL points earned outside BBO into BBO, which I'm quite sure is not permitted.
I am trying to get credit on BBO for points earned there that aren't credited immediately at end of game, including when double points are offered, or points are adjusted following the end of the game.
I can look up the points BBO has credited to me using the Masterpoints button on my profile. However, I know for a fact it does not update points that change following the game or, as I mentioned, when I play and earn points that aren't posted immediately at end of game.
Thank you.

Hi again
Just so you know, I don't work for BBO, or the ACBL .
Regarding timing for masterpoint credits, this can take time. Depending on when it gets reported.
A few minutes ago I played in an ACBL Tourney online and placed. This means I get ACBL and BBO points. The points have not yet been added to my tally at the link I pointed you to.
Even after that happens it will be a while before they are reported to the ACBL and then longer before they are included in their database.
In Australia Clubs send masterpoint updates monthly. If the club masterpoint secretary is late by a few minutes: disaster.

For people used to electronic banking, all this seems rather odd. I don't get it either. Bridgeworld could do better in my humble opinion but it won't be the last time that nobody cares what I think .

In the old days there used to a thing called the CCH when you cashed a check (cheque) the shop would take it to the bank. The bank would give it to a cyclist the cyclist would cycle to a central clearing house CCH. The check would 'clear' The whole process would take a few days.
IF IT WAS RAINING. All the cyclists in London would stop and have a cup of tea at Mrs Smiggin's tea shop. That's why the cheque clearing time is so long.

I don't know why it still takes so long to get my money today. I would have thought that masterpoints could also 'clear' a bit faster, but maybe I'm a little naive.

[Miss Trudy]

pilowsky, on 2020-August-30, 22:25, said:

Just so you know, I don't work for BBO, or the ACBL .
Regarding timing for masterpoint credits, this can take time. Depending on when it gets reported.
A few minutes ago I played in an ACBL Tourney online and placed. This means I get ACBL and BBO points. The points have not yet been added to my tally at the link I pointed you to.
Even after that happens it will be a while before they are reported to the ACBL and then longer before they are included in their database.
In Australia Clubs send masterpoint updates monthly. If the club masterpoint secretary is late by a few minutes: disaster.

With appreciation for your effort to weigh in on my question, again, my concern is not about having BBO points post to ACBL.
My concern is not about a time lag before ACBL points earned on BBO are posted to BBO.
My concern is about ACBL points earned on BBO that NEVER post to BBO.
If you would kindly restrain from further comment I'd like to hear from someone at BBO about this issue, or from someone who knows of a method to update BBO points when ACBL points earned on BBO are not correctly accrued there, such as when they are adjusted after completion of a game.
This is a flaw in the BBO system that should be corrected.

[mycroft]

Hello Miss Trudy: Note that while I do occasionally work for the ACBL (but never speak for them), I do not work for BBO.

Short Answer: ACBL Masterpoints and BBO Masterpoints are different things, assigned by different people using different formulae.

Longer answer: All of what you say is correct (or could be correct) and is proper behaviour.

The key to understand is that the ACBL awards masterpoints per its (truly Byzantine) formulas for games at its clubs and tournaments. The BBO "ACBL" games are considered club games, and the VV Regional At Home is considered a tournament.

However, BBO also awards Masterpoints for games hosted by BBO. The BBO "ACBL" club is one of those games, as are many many others, affiliated with other National Bridge Organizations or only with BBO. They use their (less insane) formulas, which may not - frequently do not - line up with the ACBL's. They are separate awards.

In particular, their club games pay out at the "standard" 0.1 MP/table, using the ACBL "standard" 70% decay rate and 40% field cap. This applies no matter what "special factors" apply to your ACBL club game (charity, international fund, flighted game, two-session game,...)

No idea if the Regional At Home is considered a BBO game for BBO masterpoints, but if it is, I would expect only club-level, one-session BBO masterpoints to be awarded (for each session of the two session event, if relevant).

So, yes, the MPs may not - in fact, likely will not - line up. Points do not "come back" from the ACBL; what BBO awards is what you're going to get. What the ACBL awards is what you get in the ACBL. What the EBU awards is what you'll get in the EBU, if you play any of their games. And so on.

Thanks!

[barmar]

Mycroft is essentially correct.

Our traditional ACBL games: Speedballs, Individuals, Robot Duplicates, Instant Tournaments, and Daylongs have their masterpoints calculated by BBO. At the end of the month we send ACBL a report with the points earned in all these tournaments. In these games BBO points are equal to ACBL Masterpoints.

Virtual Club games and Regional tournaments are handled differently. We continue to calculate BBO points for these games using our traditional method, but ACBL calculates their Masterpoints independently. We send them the detailed results of each game immediately after it completes, and they load it into Live for Clubs (for virtual club games) or ACBL Live (for tournaments). The formulas aren't the same on BBO and ACBL.

[Vampyr]

pilowsky, on 2020-August-30, 02:32, said:

In many ways, it is a shame that there is not a single international 'masterpoint bureau de change. A very famous Champion who came to Australia for a while became the number one 'rookie' in 2019 because this system does not exist.
Seems like something BBO could offer as a service to the community n'est pas?

In the EBU people who have done most of their playing in other countries cannot claim “non-expert” status or play in any games where you eg “neither player is a Regional Master or above” and, while their NGS Grade is settling, I am sure that they are not permitted to take advantage of having a low one.

[Miss Trudy]

mycroft, on 2020-August-31, 12:21, said:

Hello Miss Trudy: Note that while I do occasionally work for the ACBL (but never speak for them), I do not work for BBO.

Short Answer: ACBL Masterpoints and BBO Masterpoints are different things, assigned by different people using different formulae.

Longer answer: All of what you say is correct (or could be correct) and is proper behaviour.

The key to understand is that the ACBL awards masterpoints per its (truly Byzantine) formulas for games at its clubs and tournaments. The BBO "ACBL" games are considered club games, and the VV Regional At Home is considered a tournament.

However, BBO also awards Masterpoints for games hosted by BBO. The BBO "ACBL" club is one of those games, as are many many others, affiliated with other National Bridge Organizations or only with BBO. They use their (less insane) formulas, which may not - frequently do not - line up with the ACBL's. They are separate awards.

In particular, their club games pay out at the "standard" 0.1 MP/table, using the ACBL "standard" 70% decay rate and 40% field cap. This applies no matter what "special factors" apply to your ACBL club game (charity, international fund, flighted game, two-session game,...)

No idea if the Regional At Home is considered a BBO game for BBO masterpoints, but if it is, I would expect only club-level, one-session BBO masterpoints to be awarded (for each session of the two session event, if relevant).

So, yes, the MPs may not - in fact, likely will not - line up. Points do not "come back" from the ACBL; what BBO awards is what you're going to get. What the ACBL awards is what you get in the ACBL. What the EBU awards is what you'll get in the EBU, if you play any of their games. And so on.

Thanks!

Thanks very much for your clear (if disappointing) explanation!