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expert defense

#1 User is offline   luckyloser 

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Posted 2020-September-01, 05:02

MP, E opens 3, W bids 3NT.
P leads 2 (you play length signals throughout, so low from odd) and you see this dummy and your hand:

AQ
xx
x
AT98xxxx

J32
J9
AKT987
64

dummy plays low and you the J which declarer wins with the Q. now decl plays theJ which p covers with the Q and dummy wins the A.
Whats your plan?
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#2 User is offline   mycroft 

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Posted 2020-September-01, 10:17

3NT, 2 lead (low from odd), small, J, Q.
T2, Declarer leads J,Q,A.

When I go to sea, don't fear for me, Fear For The Storm -- Birdie and the Swansong (tSCoSI)
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#3 User is offline   manudude03 

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Posted 2020-September-01, 15:43

I know the problem says we play count signals throughout, but will partner likely understand if I give false count here that I'll have a diamond card, or at least do something non-standard? Count's use seems limited here with such extreme length in clubs (and if declarer had a doubleton club, they would surely duck the first from partner's perspective).

I doubt this trick will be the determining factor in how many tricks will be made unless low-high can mean something other than odd number of clubs.
Wayne Somerville
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#4 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2020-September-01, 16:40

LuckyLoser's deal, rotated to make South declarer. Thus, you are East. MP. North opens 3. South replies 3NT. West leads 2 (low from odd) to your J and declarer's Q. Declarer continues J Q A
++++++++++++++++++++
(Reverse) Smith Peters can be useful in this kind of context. e.g. You might play 6, if you've agreed that a peter shows dislike of partner's lead and asks for a switch. After cashing AK, you can switch back to .

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#5 User is offline   luckyloser 

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Posted 2020-September-01, 23:59

View Postmanudude03, on 2020-September-01, 15:43, said:

I know the problem says we play count signals throughout, but will partner likely understand if I give false count here that I'll have a diamond card, or at least do something non-standard? Count's use seems limited here with such extreme length in clubs (and if declarer had a doubleton club, they would surely duck the first from partner's perspective).

I doubt this trick will be the determining factor in how many tricks will be made unless low-high can mean something other than odd number of clubs.


p surely has the c K. in fact partner was waiting for a clue. declarer´s hand is totally unknown, it can be a monster or maybe below average. his 3nt call tells very little. so it may well be that he has to cash the h A before it gets lost. oviously a count signal is useless since p will know the exact c count on the next trick, there simply are no more c out. playing the low card shows interest in the lower suit, so p can switch to d with very good results. a high c would normally show s but here it simply shows no d interest.
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#6 User is offline   FelicityR 

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Posted 2020-September-02, 06:52

I could see the world class women's player Rixi Markus answering this forum question along these lines. Keep it simple. Without any obvious inferences or reverse peters to show specific holdings it is obvious that declarer has a singleton J and your partner KQ. So what's the point of signalling to show a doubleton by petering? A switched on partner should interpret a small followed by a higher one as to lead the lower suit s next.

By doing the opposite to what is usual is signifying something. A partnership that is consistent with their signals and defensive discards should be able to work out what's going on here, in my humble opinion.
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#7 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2020-September-02, 08:01

I couldn’t get past seeing dummy. This is an expert-level game in which dummy opened 3C with AQ xx x A1098xxxx?

And a presumably expert partner bid 3N with, one assumes, the stiff club Jack, at most KJ in spades and QJ in diamonds? Declarer may be as bad a player as his partner is, but even really weak players would usually not play the heart Queen if holding AKQ, so it looks as if declarer has something like a KJxx AQxx QJxx J at best. Bidding 3N is weird unless, of course, a 3C preempt promises 8 winners😊

And our partner’s lead was uninformative about his interest in hearts?

The question of what to play has a little interest, but the context is simply silly.

It’s pretty obvious that declarer is going to play a club after winning the Ace, and that partner will be on lead.

Partner knows the heart situation, and he knows that dummy has a spadeventry. He should infer that declarer almost surely has the spade King for his 3N.

Therefore partner should know that a spade is futile, so should play a diamond in any event. However, we can encourage him to do so, assuming that he pays attention to our carding. Fortunately, we have a simple binary message: lead spades or diamonds. Play up the line, to show you want the lower of the two alternatives.


However, partner would have to be very bad not to play a diamond anyway.
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
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#8 User is offline   manudude03 

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Posted 2020-September-02, 08:55

View Postluckyloser, on 2020-September-01, 23:59, said:

p surely has the c K. in fact partner was waiting for a clue. declarer´s hand is totally unknown, it can be a monster or maybe below average. his 3nt call tells very little. so it may well be that he has to cash the h A before it gets lost. oviously a count signal is useless since p will know the exact c count on the next trick, there simply are no more c out. playing the low card shows interest in the lower suit, so p can switch to d with very good results. a high c would normally show s but here it simply shows no d interest.


More or less matches up with what I'm saying (I didn't bother mentioning partner had the K- obviously the case), except West should already know you're doubleton before you even play one (if declarer has a doubleton club, then playing the ace seems strange). I was answering under the assumption you weren't playing Smith Peters or Smith Echos.
Wayne Somerville
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#9 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2020-September-02, 10:55

View Postmikeh, on 2020-September-02, 08:01, said:

Partner knows the heart situation....

Declarer could have added a little suspense to the play by winning K which is consistent with East having QJ(x) (or J(xx) instead of Q because if East had KJ(x) they would have played the king.
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#10 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2020-September-05, 10:00

Perhaps "Next to impossible" to ask for a diamond switch.Yes,declarer should win the King and not the Queen.This may not fool the defenders as a play of club 4 first and then the six next should make it clear that it is declarer who holds the Queen,The switch then becomes more attractive and obvious.Winning the queen first APPARENTLY makes the defence much much easier.Anyway an excellent poser . IF, and only IF,declarer DECIDES, for reasons which he alone can tell, that a 2/2 club break is necessary then if he ducks the the first club lead the defence gets harder.Thanks.
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#11 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2020-September-05, 12:14

View Postmsjennifer, on 2020-September-05, 10:00, said:

Perhaps "Next to impossible" to ask for a diamond switch.Yes,declarer should win the King and not the Queen.This may not fool the defenders as a play of club 4 first and then the six next should make it clear that it is declarer who holds the Queen,

Mikeh says playing up the line in clubs says you want a diamond switch. Apparently you are saying that playing up the line in clubs shows Q, assuming declarer won the king.

If declarer actually had their bid, they should have something more like



East would have a different hand, but still the same club holding.

and you should be signalling partner to cash out (this is MP) because you have nothing. I don't have any answers, but there are a lot of potential legal signals that could be sent, so which one applies?
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#12 User is offline   nullve 

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Posted 2020-September-05, 12:50

View Postnige1, on 2020-September-01, 16:40, said:

(Reverse) Smith Peters can be useful in this kind of context. e.g. You might play 6, if you've agreed that a peter shows dislike of partner's lead and asks for a switch.

I play it as encouraging the Obvious Shift.
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#13 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2020-September-06, 15:38

View Postjohnu, on 2020-September-05, 12:14, said:

Mikeh says playing up the line in clubs says you want a diamond switch. Apparently you are saying that playing up the line in clubs shows Q, assuming declarer won the king.

If declarer actually had their bid, they should have something more like



East would have a different hand, but still the same club holding.

and you should be signalling partner to cash out (this is MP) because you have nothing. I don't have any answers, but there are a lot of potential legal signals that could be sent, so which one applies?

Also, as Nige1 pointed out, there is Smith and Reverse Smith Echos. IIRC, there was a poster who always had the perfect convention or card signal that solved the current particular problem.
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