[zaylyn]

In prime table with 3 robots I am South. Anyway that I can swap and be North when North is declarer? I would like to play the hands instead of the robot. Most other bridge apps allow the swap.

[pilowsky]

zaylyn, on 2020-July-08, 23:19, said:

In prime table with 3 robots I am South. Anyway that I can swap and be North when North is declarer? I would like to play the hands instead of the robot. Most other bridge apps allow the swap.

I agree - and I thought that I had asked for this feature before. If not I agree. After all, it seems possible everywhere else on BBO. Sometimes it is useful to be able to see how GIB plays the hand, so I would like to have it as a table option that could be toggled on or off when setting up the table in Prime. As a programmer, I know that this is easy to implement.

[barmar]

Currently we only do this in robot tournaments, not ordinary bridge tables.

[pilowsky]

barmar, on 2020-July-10, 16:32, said:

Currently we only do this in robot tournaments, not ordinary bridge tables.

This is obvious. As a member of Prime, I am paying for the right to buy a table with 3 advanced robots. Each time I do this I am playing a practice tournament against 3 robots. That is why I want to have this option. So do many other Prime clients.
We all know that you don't have the option. That is why we are asking for it. Does that make the question clearer?

[barmar]

pilowsky, on 2020-July-10, 16:45, said:

This is obvious. As a member of Prime, I am paying for the right to buy a table with 3 advanced robots.

The benefit you get for being a Prime member is that you're not charged $1/day every time you want to play with 3 advanced robots.

[pilowsky]

barmar, on 2020-July-10, 16:53, said:

The benefit you get for being a Prime member is that you're not charged $1/day every time you want to play with 3 advanced robots.

This comment does not satisfactorily answer the issue raised. Can I ask if you are responding as a Forum member, a Player, or as a member of BBO staff?
Here is an extract from the BBO statement about Prime:
It is very clear that they are committing to ADDING AWESOME FEATURES. Not to fobbing me off with platitudes.
I am the customer. It is not for you to tell me what benefit I get.

Contact Us

• Feedback is welcome as usual. Use the "Contact Us" form in the BBO Prime menu, or email us at support@bridgebase.com with comments and suggestions
• We will improve the BBO Prime community and keep adding more awesome features to your subscription. Don't hesitate to let us know what else you would love to see on BBO in general, or in the BBO Prime community in particular.

[johnu]

barmar, on 2020-July-10, 16:32, said:

Currently we only do this in robot tournaments, not ordinary bridge tables.

Switching to human declares on those hands when the human would be dummy should reduce CPU cycles since only 2 robot defenders are needed, and a 3rd robot playing as declarer is not needed.

[gbb483]

johnu, on 2020-July-10, 19:04, said:

Switching to human declares on those hands when the human would be dummy should reduce CPU cycles since only 2 robot defenders are needed, and a 3rd robot playing as declarer is not needed.

Well that's hardly realistic. Who's going to give you an earful when you misplay it? You still need the robot in dummy.

[barmar]

I was responding as a forum member.

I'm not ssaying we won't do it or it's a bad idea, but your logic for why you think you're entitled to it as a Prime benefit seemed specious to me. As a Prime member you're already getting potentially $30 worth of robot rentals for your $6/mo.

Personally, I think we should enable human declares for all players, not just Prime. It doesn't require any programming, the ability is already in the software, we just have to flip a switch.

Making it a user setting, or just for Prime members, would require more work.

[pilowsky]

barmar, on 2020-July-12, 13:12, said:

I was responding as a forum member.

I'm not ssaying we won't do it or it's a bad idea, but your logic for why you think you're entitled to it as a Prime benefit seemed specious to me. As a Prime member you're already getting potentially $30 worth of robot rentals for your $6/mo.

Personally, I think we should enable human declares for all players, not just Prime. It doesn't require any programming, the ability is already in the software, we just have to flip a switch.

Making it a user setting, or just for Prime members, would require more work.

Well, since you are replying as a Forum member. I don't care what you think. When you say 'we', Who is we? Do not tell me what I am entitled to. I am entitled to ask for whatever I want.
You don't seem to understand how business works. I am a customer. I pay money. I ask for a service. If YOU own the business - Do you own the business? You are polite/reasonable.
It would require more work you say!!! Now we are cooking with gas.
If you think that by adding the service it will attract more customers and you will make more money as a result then you add the service. Either way, everyone is happy. Be nice Barry.
What you don't do is confuse the two roles. Abuse your customers and annoy them on an open Forum. That could be construed by some as a bit odd.

[barmar]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to come off as so dismissive.

Of course you're entitled to ask for things. But you seemed to suggest that you already paid for this feature, and you're not getting what you paid for.

[pilowsky]

barmar, on 2020-July-13, 14:46, said:

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to come off as so dismissive.

Of course you're entitled to ask for things. But you seemed to suggest that you already paid for this feature, and you're not getting what you paid for.

It is particularly difficult when you conflate three voices Barry; often in a single post. You are doing it again here. I am am not asserting an "entitlement". BBO has made a commitment. You are not the owner of BBO. What is going on? I am making a SUGGESTION.
It is something that BBO has already committed to when I paid to join the Prime area. I was born in 1958 so the word 'awesome' was not quite as degraded as it is now but I think it still has some meaning as quite good even in modern teenage parlance. I know that you are a few years younger than me, and I am pretty sure that you did mean to be dismissive,
Here it is again:
We will improve the BBO Prime community and keep adding more awesome features to your subscription. Don't hesitate to let us know what else you would love to see on BBO in general, or in the BBO Prime community in particular.
Awesome features... don't hesitate... love to see... we will improve... let us know...
Read the responses to the survey about Prime membership. Prime customers are not completely satisfied. https://www.bridgeba...52#entry1001852
They don't join Prime to meet people and socialise. It doesn't look like BBO is responding to their needs. I did not vote.
I have a collection of similarly dismissive communications from others at BBO. They often direct me to the Forum. At the Forum I get helped/abused/dismissed by Experts. I sort the wheat from the ... Other people have the same experience. They tell me about it privately. Bridge is a small world. Other Forums (or Fora if you want to be pedantic) are not like this one. Genug ist genug.
Maybe I should form a Super PAC? Barry. Like George Conway. What do you think? Just asking?
Just so you know, I am a professional educator - you can look me up. I do not give up easily. Before I retired I trained people for a living. I learned how to do things for a living. Things that are much more difficult than Bridge, although Bridge is very helpful as a way to focus my thinking. If BBO wants me to learn by making posts on the Forum then that's fine by me. Happy to comply. At the same time though I am going to try and improve BBO so that it serves me, and the wider community, better.

[zaylyn]

As someone who is deciding whether to remain in prime, this is the deciding issue. Other bridge apps allow this when playing with their robots, so I think this will be my last month on prime.

[pilowsky]

I have discovered a workaround that is extremely tedious.

On a teaching table, I can reload the hand onto the table, move myself to another seat and then let the robots bid the hand.

Still a bit annoying.

[Vampyr]

pilowsky, on 2020-July-13, 16:15, said:

It is particularly difficult when you conflate thre
Read the responses to the survey about Prime membership. Prime customers are not coympletely satisfied. https://www.bridgeba...52#entry1001852
They don't join Prime to meet people and socialise. It doesn't look like BBO is responding to their needs. I did not vote.

To be fair, four people voted and two others offered suggestions. How many people are on Prime (paying members). I am guessing at least 20, so the sample size seems small.

[pilowsky]

Vampyr, on 2020-July-25, 19:36, said:

To be fair, four people voted and two others offered suggestions. How many people are on Prime (paying members). I am guessing at least 20, so the sample size seems small.

Guessing without knowledge is called...?

[Vampyr]

pilowsky, on 2020-July-25, 20:49, said:

Guessing without knowledge is called...?

It is called guessing.

I also think that at least 20 is a very reasonable guess, since it it on the low side. It would not surprise me if there were 100 or more (excluding those who are getting it for free).

[pilowsky]

You seem to have developed a major problem with the prime area. It is nothing more at least at the moment than a monthly prepaid plan where customers of BBO like me get access to the Advanced robots for practice.

We get some other things, but some things that we want are not there.

It is not helpful to have other people sitting on the sidelines defining what I should or should not want. In fact, it is a little bit annoying.

You have no idea about the clientele in the prime area.

My understanding is that the initial 'free' bit stopped a while back. I have a friend who was part of the free cohort. his membership lapsed and he did not restart it.

I was not one of the 'chosen people'. I had to sign up and pay. I think the prime area is great and am promoting it as much as I can.

So do the other people that use it.

We just want it to be even better.

If you are not interested then stay away.

[pilowsky]

And, fwiw, I just got the results of the Saturday Prime Daylong.

288 players completed it.

Sounds like more than 20.

At least six people that I know are prime members are not on the list of players this week.

This suggests that well over 1000 people may be members.

I guess that your guess is not right.

[smerriman]

pilowsky, on 2020-July-26, 00:11, said:

This suggests that well over 1000 people may be members.

I guess that your guess is not right.

Not this again. You still haven't learnt the definition of 'at least' after last time? Her guess is 100% correct.

And well over 1000 makes her point even stronger; namely, that quoting a sample of 6 people as evidence that everyone wants something is meaningless.

You can request whatever you like. Saying "we" and implying everyone else agrees with you is something altogether different; as is implying that you must get you want above everything else.