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What would you bid?

#1 User is offline   Finanzier 

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Posted 2020-July-05, 09:57

How would you open following hand and why?
Which bid would you never take?

-
AKxx
x
B109876xx
0

#2 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2020-July-05, 10:01

Pass. Assuming 1st or 2nd position
5C other.

Position and Vulnerability is missing.
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#3 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2020-July-05, 10:30

Finanzier "How would you open following hand and why? Which bid would you never take?"
+++++++++++++++++++
Assuming MPs, 1st seat, None vul, I rank
1. 4 = PRE Unless South African Texas.
2. 5 = PRE Put your faith in the long suit.
3. 3 = PRE Underbid.
4. 1 = NAT Misdescriptive.
5. Pass = NAT Pusilanimous.
6. Other bids e.g. 7NT = Avoid.

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#4 User is offline   DavidKok 

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Posted 2020-July-05, 11:46

I would rank Pass way higher than that, in fact it is my first choice in 1st/2nd seat regardless of vulnerability, and at 3rd seat I'd have a huge problem (probably 4/5). The problem with opening preemptively on this hand is that partner might well be goaded into a poor sacrifice and/or lead on defence, (obviously) not playing you for 2 quick tricks in an outside suit. Also I suppose on occasion you'll miss 6, but that is not a big concern in my opinion.
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#5 User is offline   FelicityR 

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Posted 2020-July-05, 14:06

4 in first, (if not using the Namyats convention) vulnerable or non-vulnerable as it makes it so difficult for the opponents to get their act together. Even vulnerable vs. non-vulnerable although it could result in a large penalty. Even at IMPs. I might be pre-empting partner, but I'm also pre-empting two opponents if I bid. Passing in first position may allow the opponents to find their fit before I can do anything. Get in first, Felicity, is my motto. It's not your normal pre-emptive hand with potentially two tricks available but passing an eight card suit just looks wussy, or as Nigel says, very timid, pusillanimous.
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#6 User is offline   ahydra 

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Posted 2020-July-05, 19:12

I must admit, I'd pass this in 1st or 2nd seat. I prefer my pre-empts to be bit more tightly defined, namely at most 1 outside defensive trick. This hand also has a lot of potential to play in hearts. In 3rd seat 4C or 5C depending on vulnerability and the weather.

ahydra
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#7 User is offline   razzle899 

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Posted 2020-July-05, 22:09

View PostFinanzier, on 2020-July-05, 09:57, said:

How would you open following hand and why?
Which bid would you never take?

-
AKxx
x
B109876xx

0

#8 User is offline   razzle899 

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Posted 2020-July-05, 22:09

i would bid one club
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#9 User is offline   razzle899 

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Posted 2020-July-05, 22:10

View Postrazzle899, on 2020-July-05, 22:09, said:

i would bid one club

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#10 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2020-July-06, 00:26

Sir.
The question asked is what would you bid etc in the first seat.
My answer is a firm PASS. There Are 32 HCP missing and hence I have enough time to bid appropriately on the next round.
To all those who favour some sort of preempt my question is 1)Whom are you preempting by bidding clubs IN THE FIRST SEAT? 2)These days nobody bothers or gets shouted out by a preempt in clubs. 3)You may possibly miss a Grand in hearts or clubs.
Those who play PRECISION will have no problem .They have the easiest 2 bid available.
And lastly some funny adjectives may be used for those who PASS.My adjective for 4C and etc is SUICIDAL.(HARAKIRI as Japanese would call it)
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#11 User is offline   FelicityR 

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Posted 2020-July-06, 01:51

View Postmsjennifer, on 2020-July-06, 00:26, said:

Sir.
The question asked is what would you bid etc in the first seat.
My answer is a firm PASS. There Are 32 HCP missing and hence I have enough time to bid appropriately on the next round.
To all those who favour some sort of preempt my question is 1)Whom are you preempting by bidding clubs IN THE FIRST SEAT? 2)These days nobody bothers or gets shouted out by a preempt in clubs. 3)You may possibly miss a Grand in hearts or clubs.
Those who play PRECISION will have no problem .They have the easiest 2 bid available.
And lastly some funny adjectives may be used for those who PASS.My adjective for 4C and etc is SUICIDAL.(HARAKIRI as Japanese would call it)


Answer to 1. The opponents, possibly partner, but odds of 2-1 in favour
Answer to 2. Any pre-empt makes life difficult for the opponents, including s. A 4 bid especially as if the hand in 4th is strong, the hand in 2nd won't know exactly whether partner is balancing or has a good hand.
Answer to 3. I take that chance, though if we have a slam in s or s the opponents are more than likely to be stacked in s or the top suit s. Rarely is there one distributional hand around the table when one hand has 8410 shape.
Answer to Precision: Yes, it's an ideal system for this hand. I also thought of a 2 Precision bid here.
Answer to Pass: I don't disagree with Pass here either. But it does allow the opponents two bids to state their values.
Answer to Suicide (Hara-kiri): On normal breaks the hand has 8 tricks with s as trumps. We're not doing anything suicidal here, but I agree it's not-run-of-the-mill either. Both Pass and pre-empting in s could work here. It's a view.
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#12 User is online   Tramticket 

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Posted 2020-July-06, 01:53

(Assumption: opening bidder, all non-vul)

Style matters here. What will partner expect for a 4 opening? Or 1? Or pass? All of these actions are possible and might work better - a lot depends on who holds the spades!

"Which bid would you never take?" - I wouldn't bid 3
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#13 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2020-July-06, 05:51

View Postahydra, on 2020-July-05, 19:12, said:

I must admit, I'd pass this in 1st or 2nd seat. I prefer my pre-empts to be bit more tightly defined, namely at most 1 outside defensive trick. This hand also has a lot of potential to play in hearts. In 3rd seat 4C or 5C depending on vulnerability and the weather.

ahydra

Sir,
Exactly Sir..The possession of AKxx completely overrules any thought of a preemptive bid in clubs where the suit is headed only by a miserly JACK..One does not want partner to lead a club at all ,unless that is his normal NATURAL lead,if LHO buys the auction.OH, I aim sorry.Those who preempt will certainly make a LIGHTNER DOUBLE asking him to lead something((?)else but clubs.And then ,of course he will lead a heart.Or won't he !Why imagine what opponents can have as ones partner too can have a giant of a distributional hand with total misfit. Partner certainly will not expect THIS hand if a high level club preempt is made.And a very large number of advanced players do play well defined bids of 4C/.D as transfer to H/S with 012 formula as per the vulnerability(using 4H/S opening bid as per 123 formula) THANKS.


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#14 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2020-July-06, 05:51

View Postahydra, on 2020-July-05, 19:12, said:

I must admit, I'd pass this in 1st or 2nd seat. I prefer my pre-empts to be bit more tightly defined, namely at most 1 outside defensive trick. This hand also has a lot of potential to play in hearts. In 3rd seat 4C or 5C depending on vulnerability and the weather.

ahydra

Sir
One can also IMAGINE partner leading the King from Kx and boy! will the faces be red as two losers are discarded.


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#15 User is offline   Huibertus 

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Posted 2020-July-06, 08:22

Assuming 1st or 2nd hand, pass. IMHO the best way to gather information on this hand.
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#16 User is offline   FelicityR 

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Posted 2020-July-06, 16:31

View PostHuibertus, on 2020-July-06, 08:22, said:

Assuming 1st or 2nd hand, pass. IMHO the best way to gather information on this hand.


Yes, that could be true. But let's say the opponents remain silent and partner opens 1. Where does that leave you? Partner's open in 3rd so 2 would be Drury if you use that convention. 3 would be Bergen if you use that convention. And 4 would be seen a splinter. But you can't bid any of these. So, the only bid left is 5.

I agree it's an extreme example but many advanced players could be using these conventions.
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#17 User is online   akwoo 

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Posted 2020-July-06, 17:32

1st seat: If partner is better than opponents, pass. If partner is worse than opponents, 4 vul, 5 nonvul.

2nd seat: pass.

3rd seat: 4 vul, 5 nonvul.

4th seat: pass.
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#18 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2020-July-07, 01:45

View PostHuibertus, on 2020-July-06, 08:22, said:

Assuming 1st or 2nd hand, pass. IMHO the best way to gather information on this hand.

Sir,
Absolutely.I too did say so.


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#19 User is offline   DavidKok 

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Posted 2020-July-07, 01:53

View PostFelicityR, on 2020-July-06, 16:31, said:

Yes, that could be true. But let's say the opponents remain silent and partner opens 1. Where does that leave you? Partner's open in 3rd so 2 would be Drury if you use that convention. 3 would be Bergen if you use that convention. And 4 would be seen a splinter. But you can't bid any of these. So, the only bid left is 5.

I agree it's an extreme example but many advanced players could be using these conventions.


In that case you pass, put your hand face down on the table and go for a long walk. I hear nature can be very calming.
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#20 User is offline   PhilG007 

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Posted 2020-July-07, 04:13

View PostFinanzier, on 2020-July-05, 09:57, said:

How would you open following hand and why?
Which bid would you never take?

-
AKxx
x
B109876xx


I would pass regardless of the vulnerability and the seat. Unless partner opens the bidding. I am staying shtum. With only 8 hcp and no biddable suit ,it's a no brainer Posted Image
"It is not enough to be a good player, you must also play well"
- Dr Tarrasch(1862-1934)German Chess Grandmaster

Bridge is a game where you have two opponents...and often three(!)


"Any palooka can take tricks with Aces and Kings; the true expert shows his prowess
by how he handles the two's and three's" - Mollo's Hideous Hog
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