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Multiple teams

#1 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2020-June-26, 15:20

Running tournaments with even numbers of teams should be possible, but with a number teams itís not so straightforward. Some friends and I would like to play or three teams, so it seems that we need some sort of multiple teams movement. Please advise how to do this.
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#2 User is offline   paulg 

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Posted 2020-June-27, 00:51

BBO only supports head to head matches. It does not support any other form of teams event.

I was involving in trialling Swiss teams with abused junior teams in 2015. It worked well enough for a committed field but I think that the feedback meant that BBO did not want to roll it out to the general population.

If you consider how difficult it can be to get eight people to start a team match, you can imagine the problems for a larger field especially between matches.

However the BBO population has changed in the last three months and perhaps it is more viable now. If the code is still viable.

Paul
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#3 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2020-June-27, 08:56

View Postpaulg, on 2020-June-27, 00:51, said:

BBO only supports head to head matches. It does not support any other form of teams event.

I was involving in trialling Swiss teams with abused junior teams in 2015. It worked well enough for a committed field but I think that the feedback meant that BBO did not want to roll it out to the general population.

If you consider how difficult it can be to get eight people to start a team match, you can imagine the problems for a larger field especially between matches.

However the BBO population has changed in the last three months and perhaps it is more viable now. If the code is still viable.


I played a SwissTeam tournament on BBO yesterday as I do every Friday. The code is still there and more or less working but tournament creation is not available to all (this one is created and run by BBO Italia).

Getting a team registered is not particularly difficult although it could be more flexible - you register as two pairs (with the usual nuisance that partner must be online when invited) and then the captain of one pair invites the other to unite in a team. There is a bug in the html5 client that necessitates the obsolete Flash client to make this team invite. The tournament itself can be played with any client.
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#4 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2020-June-27, 11:33

View Postpaulg, on 2020-June-27, 00:51, said:

BBO only supports head to head matches. It does not support any other form of teams event.

I was involving in trialling Swiss teams with abused junior teams in 2015. It worked well enough for a committed field but I think that the feedback meant that BBO did not want to roll it out to the general population.

If you consider how difficult it can be to get eight people to start a team match, you can imagine the problems for a larger field especially between matches.

However the BBO population has changed in the last three months and perhaps it is more viable now. If the code is still viable.

Paul


We have little problem getting 8 people for a match, and were hoping to have a way to play with 12. If multiple teams are not supported then you need to play three sessions, with one team sitting out each time. Not ideal.

Is there a way to enter a team of all robots to make up four teams?
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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#5 User is offline   paulg 

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Posted 2020-June-27, 11:44

View PostVampyr, on 2020-June-27, 11:33, said:

We have little problem getting 8 people for a match, and were hoping to have a way to play with 12. If multiple teams are not supported then you need to play three sessions, with one team sitting out each time. Not ideal.

Is there a way to enter a team of all robots to make up four teams?

No (never been requested as far as I am aware).
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#6 User is offline   mob259 

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Posted 2020-July-01, 01:35

What has the TD to do to set up a swiss teams match?
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#7 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2020-July-01, 01:50

View Postmob259, on 2020-July-01, 01:35, said:

What has the TD to do to set up a swiss teams match?


You should put this is its own thread, since Swiss Teams and Multiple Teams are not remotely similar.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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#8 User is offline   Gerardo 

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Posted 2020-July-01, 09:07

There is a way to do a 3-way match.

Create 3 matches.
Fill the open rooms only. Leave the closed rooms empty. Play all the boards.

Once everyone finished, sub everyone in the proper seat in a Closed Room,
NS where EW teammates played, EW where NS teammates played.

Replay all the boards.

There are now 3 different matches played.

#9 User is offline   mycroft 

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Posted 2020-July-01, 09:08

Since nobody apart from one tiny island has a clue what "multiple teams" are, it's not unreasonable that you get what you consider "off-topic" posts, especially on a forum for an American-based, if world-wide in scope, business.
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#10 User is offline   mycroft 

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Posted 2020-July-01, 09:14

Slightly less sarcastic, it looks from the EBU site on "Multiple teams movements" that it's "the same movement as point-a-board, only scored IMP (potentially IMP-to-VP)." Perhaps asking for point-a-board movements (or, to translate into American, "Board-a-Match" movements) would get you better answers, ones that don't get confused with "teams of 8" (whatever that is, that's another "weird island special"), or "multiple team matches" or any of the other things people are looking to do.
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#11 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2020-July-01, 09:47

View PostGerardo, on 2020-July-01, 09:07, said:

There is a way to do a 3-way match.

Create 3 matches.
Fill the open rooms only. Leave the closed rooms empty. Play all the boards.

Once everyone finished, sub everyone in the proper seat in a Closed Room,
NS where EW teammates played, EW where NS teammates played.

Replay all the boards.

There are now 3 different matches played.


Well, yes I was hoping to do this without half the people sitting out for a match.

I donít really understand this method. I am sure you have worked it out do that each team has played both of the others, but with one set of boards I donít really see it.

View Postmycroft, on 2020-July-01, 09:14, said:

Slightly less sarcastic, it looks from the EBU site on "Multiple teams movements" that it's "the same movement as point-a-board, only scored IMP (potentially IMP-to-VP)." Perhaps asking for point-a-board movements (or, to translate into American, "Board-a-Match" movements) would get you better answers, ones that don't get confused with "teams of 8" (whatever that is, that's another "weird island special"), or "multiple team matches" or any of the other things people are looking to do.


OK. Would someone please tell me how to set up a point-a-board movement?
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#12 User is offline   gordontd 

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Posted 2020-July-01, 09:51

View Postmycroft, on 2020-July-01, 09:14, said:

Slightly less sarcastic, it looks from the EBU site on "Multiple teams movements" that it's "the same movement as point-a-board, only scored IMP (potentially IMP-to-VP)." Perhaps asking for point-a-board movements (or, to translate into American, "Board-a-Match" movements) would get you better answers, ones that don't get confused with "teams of 8" (whatever that is, that's another "weird island special"), or "multiple team matches" or any of the other things people are looking to do.

I have the impression that the term "BAM movement" is only used in one (fairly large) NBO and I'm sure we in the EBU wouldn't define any movements like that, since BAM and PaB are scoring methods, not movement types.

The other term frequently used for Multiple Teams is Round Robin, although that can also be used to describe head-to-head matches in a complete movement.
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#13 User is offline   Gerardo 

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Posted 2020-July-01, 16:41

View PostVampyr, on 2020-July-01, 09:47, said:

Well, yes I was hoping to do this without half the people sitting out for a match.

I don't really understand this method. I am sure you have worked it out do that each team has played both of the others, but with one set of boards I don't really see it.



OK. Would someone please tell me how to set up a point-a-board movement?


No one sits out, 12 players, 4 players per match at any given time. But you have to wait until all 3 Open Rooms are finished before moving the players.

Aha. Can't do it with one set of boards, you need 3. Every player will play 2 of those sets.

#14 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2020-July-01, 19:10

View PostGerardo, on 2020-July-01, 16:41, said:

No one sits out, 12 players, 4 players per match at any given time. But you have to wait until all 3 Open Rooms are finished before moving the players.

Aha. Can't do it with one set of boards, you need 3. Every player will play 2 of those sets.


Yes, the problem is how to get the boards right.
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#15 User is offline   Gerardo 

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Posted 2020-July-02, 04:41

View PostVampyr, on 2020-July-01, 19:10, said:

Yes, the problem is how to get the boards right.


These are one and done, so no need to preduplicate them.

On BBO: And the matches are played in 2 stages, first the open room, then the closed room, with 2 different pairs, but boards are there.

Live: EW take the boards to their NS table for the replay, and move to the other table, where boards just played by their NS will be.




#16 User is offline   paulg 

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Posted 2020-July-02, 05:31

Remember to put "+private+" into the match descriptions so that you are not overwhelmed by people wanting to play in your match.
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#17 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2020-July-02, 07:36

View PostGerardo, on 2020-July-02, 04:41, said:

These are one and done, so no need to preduplicate them.

On BBO: And the matches are played in 2 stages, first the open room, then the closed room, with 2 different pairs, but boards are there.

Live: EW take the boards to their NS table for the replay, and move to the other table, where boards just played by their NS will be.


No, it doesnít work. Say the two stages are boards 1-8 and 9-16. Team A plays 1-8 against team B, and 9-16 against team C. There needs to be another set for B and C to play against each other.

I just thought that if there was a multiple teams movement on BBO you could use that for three teams. Or more of course. But I am not sure that there is a multiple teams movement.

View Postpaulg, on 2020-July-02, 05:31, said:

Remember to put "+private+" into the match descriptions so that you are not overwhelmed by people wanting to play in your match.


You donít have to do that. You can just reserve the seats. Although I suppose if you just had one team you would welcome another team who wanted to play against you. But I do not think it is always teams; when we have made a mistake a person will come (at the beginning or if someone gets disconnected) a person will come and sit opposite one of us. Why do they think we want to play with them?
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#18 User is offline   gordontd 

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Posted 2020-July-02, 09:59

View PostVampyr, on 2020-July-02, 07:36, said:

No, it doesnít work. Say the two stages are boards 1-8 and 9-16. Team A plays 1-8 against team B, and 9-16 against team C. There needs to be another set for B and C to play against each other.

That's the case with face-to-face triples too. In fact any complete multiple teams movement requires one more board-set than the number of matches.
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#19 User is offline   mycroft 

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Posted 2020-July-02, 11:08

Now that, I agree, Vampyr, is a useful question. And I am certain BBO will get to it in time.

But you know why point-a-board events are so (un)common - exactly the reason you want them (either MP or IMP scored).

Gerardo's method will work. Yes, there are three board sets in play. Yes, if that's also critical to you, then it's a showstopper. Yes, North American bridge doesn't care about these sorts of things in ways that boggle the minds of non-Americans.

I think if *all of that* is critical, the correct answer to "how do we run a three-team event" is the same as "what's the first priority when playing three-player Cosmic Encounter?"
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#20 User is offline   Gerardo 

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Posted 2020-July-02, 13:10

View PostVampyr, on 2020-July-02, 07:36, said:

No, it doesn't work. Say the two stages are boards 1-8 and 9-16. Team A plays 1-8 against team B, and 9-16 against team C. There needs to be another set for B and C to play against each other.

I just thought that if there was a multiple teams movement on BBO you could use that for three teams. Or more of course. But I am not sure that there is a multiple teams movement.



You don't have to do that. You can just reserve the seats. Although I suppose if you just had one team you would welcome another team who wanted to play against you. But I do not think it is always teams; when we have made a mistake a person will come (at the beginning or if someone gets disconnected) a person will come and sit opposite one of us. Why do they think we want to play with them?


There is a 3rd set, you have 3 different matches, and each one has its own set.


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