BBO Discussion Forums: What is best? - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

What is best? IMPs (if it matters)

Poll: What is best? (18 member(s) have cast votes)

What is the best option?

  1. Transfer using 4H (Texas) to play (6 votes [33.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 33.33%

  2. Transfer using 4H, then bid 4NT (RKC Blackwood) (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  3. Bid 2H (transfer) then jump to 4S (mild slam try) (2 votes [11.11%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.11%

  4. Bid 2H then bid a natural GF 3C (over partner's 2S) (10 votes [55.56%])

    Percentage of vote: 55.56%

  5. Bid 2H then splinter with 4H (over partner's 2S) (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  6. Other (please describe with a comment) (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 User is offline   shyams 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,158
  • Joined: 2009-August-02
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 2020-June-20, 10:48

At IMPs, playing 2/1 with 15-17 NT, you have a decision to make with the South hand.


0

#2 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,472
  • Joined: 2005-March-18
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2020-June-20, 11:06

You need fitting values, and to find out xfer, show clubs.
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
0

#3 User is offline   FelicityR 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 966
  • Joined: 2012-October-26
  • Gender:Female

Posted 2020-June-20, 12:07

Mildly optimistic that slam could be on, but partner has to turn up with plenty of controls in his/her hand. Partnering an inexperienced player I'll settle for 4 to 4 (as long as they understood that). With an experienced one I'll go via 2 - 2 - 3. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that partner has Ax Qxx Axx AKxxx where 7 is on. (Though personally I would open 1 with that hand and rebid 2NT.)
1

#4 User is offline   mcphee 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,480
  • Joined: 2003-February-16

Posted 2020-June-20, 13:31

bidding is about show and tell, you know you are reaching at least 4!S, simple transfer and then show !C. This is an area where most pairs have had little discussion on how to advance should the NT hand like !C. As for reaching slam partner will require a perfect fit.
0

#5 User is online   Cyberyeti 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,464
  • Joined: 2009-July-13
  • Location:England

Posted 2020-June-20, 14:04

View PostFelicityR, on 2020-June-20, 12:07, said:

Mildly optimistic that slam could be on, but partner has to turn up with plenty of controls in his/her hand. Partnering an inexperienced player I'll settle for 4 to 4 (as long as they understood that). With an experienced one I'll go via 2 - 2 - 3. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that partner has Ax Qxx Axx AKxxx where 7 is on. (Though personally I would open 1 with that hand and rebid 2NT.)


Doesn't need Q for it to be good, but yes a club small/grand with the ability to ruff a spade is not unlikely.
0

#6 User is offline   nige1 

  • 5-level belongs to me
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 8,490
  • Joined: 2004-August-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Glasgow Scotland
  • Interests:Poems Computers

Posted 2020-June-20, 21:03

shyams "At IMPs, playing 2/1 with 15-17 NT, you have a decision to make with the South hand."
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I rank
1. 2 = TFR Then raise 2 to 4 = Mild S/T.
2. 4 = TFR Then pass 4. Take the money. You have little to spare.
3. 2 = TFR Then 3 NAT G/F but s are a trifle weak to suggest as trumps.
4. 2 = TFR Then 4 SPL but singleton A isn't an ideal splinter.
Consider where you want to play opposite, say
Q x K x x x A K J A x x x

0

#7 User is offline   pilowsky 

  • pilowsky
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,107
  • Joined: 2019-October-04
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia
  • Interests:Writing, learning about life and bridge from others, Poodles, helping Poodles write

Posted 2020-June-20, 22:07

The K&R hand evaluator says K&R (KJ9862 A 85 Q876) = 11.90 DK = 9+. Who am I to disagree? As I understand it playing 15-17 (balanced) i.e not me. you definitely (IMHO) have a perfect hand for a Texas (Dallas) transfer at the Sydney Bridge Centre and in Melbourne they use South African Style. On the North side of the Harbour Bridge, where most of the South Africans live, they use Dallas-style, which is what I learned (even though I was 1 year old when I left Capetown). Since 17 + an optimistic 12 is unlikely to equal slam in anything, my vote goes to 4. Against humans or robots - less info to opps the better.
non est deus ex machina; även maskiner behöver lite kärlek; N'écris jamais une lettre et n'en détruis jamais une.
0

#8 User is online   apollo1201 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 712
  • Joined: 2014-June-01

Posted 2020-June-21, 02:57

Transferring then a mild slam try would not really show where we want partner to have points, and would probably be a slightly heavier (and less distributional) hand (6322 and 12-14 or so, I guess). Partner will punt in the dark.

4H splinter could be a good idea if we had a low H and the C or DA instead. At least it says go if you have a miracle hand opposite, no H wastage, reasonable support for S, good honors in the minors. But experts have extensively said what they thought about splintering in a blank ace. And again, I fear the hand is a little too weak.

The C suit is a bit weak to consider playing there. We need excellent support from partner, AKxx or AJxxx at least. Maybe the 2NT GF relay after the transfer rather than natural balanced invite (that was discussed in a recent thread) could help. If we bid 3C and partner bids 3S, we are probably not driving to slam anyway. Over a 3D or 3H denying the S fit, we also shut up with 4S. If partner bids 4C, well, tricky things start, I’ve told LHO what to lead and if I propose now 4S to play, why all this hassle.

At MPs, I’d immediately transfer to game. The more I think, the best it seems now as well.
0

#9 User is offline   sfi 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,841
  • Joined: 2009-May-18
  • Location:Oz

Posted 2020-June-21, 03:39

The splinter is actually a pretty good option here. Partner will downgrade any heart honours and will evaluate the hand fairly well. Splintering with a stiff ace is generally bad because partner will think KQx is a poor holding when in fact it is worth three tricks. That's not the issue here though. On this hand if partner has heart cards then they can't have enough controls to make slam a good prospect - the potential three heart tricks don't help you.

The other interesting slam option is to transfer and bid clubs. If you have a way to find out about a fit in either or both suits (and you really should), then this has good chances of working. Partner will rate soft honours in spades and clubs, but not in the red suits.

Either of these options give partner useful information to evaluate their hand well opposite my cards. My third choice would be to just have partner play 4S. If I can do that by bidding 4D I might get lucky and have partner show a super-max with 4H. So my ranking is:

1. Transfer and bid 3C
2. Transfer and splinter
3. 4-level transfer (hopefully 4D)
4. Bid 4S if natural
5. 2-level transfer and make a mild slam try
0

#10 User is online   Cyberyeti 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,464
  • Joined: 2009-July-13
  • Location:England

Posted 2020-June-21, 04:43

View Postsfi, on 2020-June-21, 03:39, said:

The splinter is actually a pretty good option here. Partner will downgrade any heart honours and will evaluate the hand fairly well. Splintering with a stiff ace is generally bad because partner will think KQx is a poor holding when in fact it is worth three tricks. That's not the issue here though. On this hand if partner has heart cards then they can't have enough controls to make slam a good prospect - the potential three heart tricks don't help you.



This is not quite true, Ax, Kxx(x), Axx(x), KJ109(x) is a decent slam as is Qx, Kxx(x), Axx(x), AKxx(x), yes KQx is bad but Kxx can be good which the splinter doesn't suggest.
0

#11 User is offline   sfi 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,841
  • Joined: 2009-May-18
  • Location:Oz

Posted 2020-June-21, 06:53

View PostCyberyeti, on 2020-June-21, 04:43, said:

This is not quite true, Ax, Kxx(x), Axx(x), KJ109(x) is a decent slam as is Qx, Kxx(x), Axx(x), AKxx(x), yes KQx is bad but Kxx can be good which the splinter doesn't suggest.

They make much better club slams though. I wouldn't be crazy about being in the spade slam on either hand, so if I were only going to look at spade contracts I'd be happy if the splinter kept me out of it.
0

#12 User is online   Cyberyeti 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,464
  • Joined: 2009-July-13
  • Location:England

Posted 2020-June-21, 07:04

View Postsfi, on 2020-June-21, 06:53, said:

They make much better club slams though. I wouldn't be crazy about being in the spade slam on either hand, so if I were only going to look at spade contracts I'd be happy if the splinter kept me out of it.


This is very true, I was talking about the club slam, but partner's club holding is going to be important to the spade slam too. If he can see that ruffing a club in the short hand might be possible then he'll like his Hx. AQx, Kxxx, Axxx, Kx is no great hand, but unless they can lead trumps twice and you're not lucky with the club situation will make 6, and the splinter will be offputting.
0

#13 User is offline   sfi 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,841
  • Joined: 2009-May-18
  • Location:Oz

Posted 2020-June-21, 07:17

Ok, I concede that my statement was too definitive. :) In my defence, I did only rate the splinter second best.
0

#14 User is offline   Zelandakh 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,351
  • Joined: 2006-May-18
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 2020-June-22, 13:48

I find some interest here from a theoretical point of view. The majority here want to transfer and show clubs. And practically every hand that has been provided is one with strong club support, so let us say that Opener continues 4. What is the plan next? 4? 4? Does someone have methods here to help with the decision-making in a cramped auction? Obviously I use second round transfers here, so my issues would be slightly different but for fairness I am looking at it from a standard bidding perspective.

Anyway, my interest comes from this - it is very easy to find perfect hands for Opener. It is somewhat more difficult within the (standard) auction to be able to split those perfectos off from other, similar hands where a slam is less good. So I am interested if the transfer people have a means of doing that that is both +EV over just being in 4 and at the same time has a higher success rate than one of the alternative methods of suggesting a slam. So far I have seen many words but little basis to be hopeful of reaching good slams while at the same time avoiding bad ones. So let's move this auction on a little and see...
(-: Zel :-)

half-wit -- Chas_P the racist
0

#15 User is offline   nige1 

  • 5-level belongs to me
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 8,490
  • Joined: 2004-August-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Glasgow Scotland
  • Interests:Poems Computers

Posted 2020-June-22, 14:42

View PostZelandakh, on 2020-June-22, 13:48, said:

So let's move this auction on a little and see...

FWIW after 1N - 2 - 2 - 3 (G/F) I like
  • 3N = NAT No fit.
  • 4/4/4/4 = ART. Double fit. 0/3 1/4 2 2+Q (6 key-cards, 2 key-queens)
  • 3 new suit = ART 4 + s (3 stronger than 3 when you have a choice)
  • 3 = NAT 3 denies 4 s.

0

#16 User is offline   Douglas43 

  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 39
  • Joined: 2020-May-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Isle of Man
  • Interests:Walking, boring my wife with bridge stories

Posted 2020-June-23, 13:17

The low-level transfer with 2H gives partner a chance to super-accept. I would have liked an option to transfer with 2H, then bid 4S over a simple 2S acceptance and make a slam try over a super-accept (depending on how they are played)
0

#17 User is offline   pilowsky 

  • pilowsky
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,107
  • Joined: 2019-October-04
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia
  • Interests:Writing, learning about life and bridge from others, Poodles, helping Poodles write

Posted 2020-June-23, 15:28

I would like to amend my original answer. Clearly, the answer to the OP's question is me.
non est deus ex machina; även maskiner behöver lite kärlek; N'écris jamais une lettre et n'en détruis jamais une.
0

Share this topic:


Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users