BBO Discussion Forums: Upcoming changes to BBO procedure - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Upcoming changes to BBO procedure Loss of TD rights

#1 User is offline   wnt53 

  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 17
  • Joined: 2016-October-07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, England
  • Interests:Bridge (obviously); Genealogy; Web 2.0; Italy; Rugby Union; F1;

Posted 2020-June-18, 03:13

Just had this drop into my inbox. Am I alone? Is there any appeal? My c150 players are going to be seriously miffed.

Quote

Dear BBO player,

We're making some changes to our terms of service that might impact your use of the BBO platform.

As of July 1st, 2020, the requirements for allowing users to create free tournaments on the BBO platform will change.

How will this affect you?
You currently have permission to create free tournaments on our platform. You will be able to continue to host free tournaments until August 1st, as follows:

- You will be able to create and run free tournaments at any hour, 24/7.
- You will only be able to create one tournament at a time, but you can start a new one as soon as the tournament in progress ends.
- Free tournaments will have at most 20 tables.

After August 1st, be sure we'll offer solutions to address your needs, regardless of which type of tournament or event you wish to organize on our platform.

Free team match creation, challenges and other types of free games will remain unchanged.

You have questions about any of these changes? We welcome any questions, comments or suggestions. Please, get in touch with us at tournaments@bridgebase.com.

Thank you for using Bridge Base Online.

0

#2 User is offline   m00036 

  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 17
  • Joined: 2018-June-25

Posted 2020-June-18, 04:15

Well it obviously depends on what changes are being proposed from August 1st. I don't mind limits on the number of free tournaments as such, but free tournaments (coupled with the amount of volunteer work that us TDs put in) are what bring players to BBO in the first place. I know lots of players that compete in free tournaments to get "warmed up" and then play in paid tournaments afterwards. This is what really sets BBO apart as an online bridge platform.

So if the changes from August 1st are a further restriction (e.g. to 7 tourneys per week) then I think that's manageable, but anything more may just detract people from playing online. I also spoke to some of my players yesterday who said that free tournaments are great because of the small number of boards and high turnout; No paid tournament will ever be able to offer that (express tournaments get 4 tables of signups over 2 hours and allow robots which no-one really likes playing against, whereas free tourneys can get 100 interested people within a 5 minute window). BBO has every right to make changes to its free setup in order to make a profit, but I would genuinely be concerned from their perspective that a cut on free tournaments will just see loyal players (who have just begun to start paying for Virtual Clubs etc.) leave to other platforms. BBO need to be encouraging Virtual Clubs to stick around with occasional online sessions once the pandemic is over, and not try to lose its loyal players who have benefited from this feature for over 15 years (probably longer, I'm no expert on BBO's history!!).
0

#3 User is offline   biometrics 

  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 29
  • Joined: 2020-April-09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Austria
  • Interests:Statistics , Quantitative Research, Bridge, Reading Crime stories & thrillers

Posted 2020-June-18, 04:19

View Postwnt53, on 2020-June-18, 03:13, said:

Just had this drop into my inbox. Am I alone? Is there any appeal? My c150 players are going to be seriously miffed.


Got the same information. For My club it´s no problem as we are 7 tables at most and I will be able to host free tournaments in the evening (Europe), again.


What I´m really interessted in is what exactly will change in august? My players wouldn´t mind low costs (say 0.25 or 0.5 BB$ per tournament).


Michael
0

#4 User is offline   m00036 

  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 17
  • Joined: 2018-June-25

Posted 2020-June-18, 04:19

I also noticed that BBO are "recruiting" for paid BBO directors. If free tournaments are being scrapped in favour of being able to offer a small fee to BBO directors then I think everyone would be worse off - no matter what I could be paid for directing a 30 minute session, it will never be worth the 95% fall in turnout and positive messages that I receive. Online masterpoints also have no value, especially now that everyone has a masterpoint rank by virtue of playing in Virtual Clubs (without any interest in the BBO Points scheme), so BBO tournaments will continue to receive far lower demand than sessions organised by national bodies.
0

#5 User is offline   hrothgar 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 14,562
  • Joined: 2003-February-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Natick, MA
  • Interests:Travel
    Cooking
    Brewing
    Hiking

Posted 2020-June-18, 04:31

I am reserving judgement until I see just what the new policies are.
Alderaan delenda est
0

#6 User is offline   wnt53 

  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 17
  • Joined: 2016-October-07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, England
  • Interests:Bridge (obviously); Genealogy; Web 2.0; Italy; Rugby Union; F1;

Posted 2020-June-18, 09:16

View Posthrothgar, on 2020-June-18, 04:31, said:

I am reserving judgement until I see just what the new policies are.
A wise policy I am sure. Others I have shown the email say I am being pessimistic and more opportunities might be forthcoming in August, not fewer. Perhaps an Admin could enlighten us, if not with the details, at the least with the direction of travel?
0

#7 User is offline   j_with_a_B 

  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 36
  • Joined: 2008-March-09

Posted 2020-June-18, 18:38

I have no idea why BBO would want to shoot themselves in the foot. After several months since the pandemic started and online bridge grew so quickly, they now do this? The chat on another thread was along the lines that "Once the server problems are resolved, we will be able to allow tourneys to be larger again at most times of the day." This is a major reversal to those obvious platitudes.

I have been hosting free tourneys on BBO for over 10 years and have helped with or run over 10,000 of them. There seems to be a mindset that players in free tourneys are a burden to the site and if they were cut back then more players would pay to play instead. Nearly half of my regular players have BBO Masterpoints. They pay to play in many tourneys but come to play in the free ones for a more relaxed mood and a more social environment.

I manage two daily tourneys, H B G Goulash at 6:30 pm ET and Blonde Magic at 1:15 am ET. I set them up once a week for the coming week. As it is now, I have at least 8 "tickets" to create them. When the last one is all that remains, I copy 7 more ahead into the next week. This was not possible with Version 2 when first released and I pointed it out on this Forum. The next day the option to copy tourneys was implemented. It allows tourneys to be copied from a template which saves a lot of time and effort and reduces errors. Once a tourney is set the way it is wanted then copying that makes it very easy and foolproof to set up. Making such a retro move as eliminating THAT is nothing short of misbegotten punishment for folks like me or a blatant attempt to make things much more difficult to the extent that we would give up and go find another site.

I understand there is new management involved but I see they have neither experience with this site nor an aptitude for seeing the unintended consequences of poorly considered actions. I would like not to think this is an act of malice due to some erroneous notion that Free Tourneys are harmful to BBO. I have many *STAR* players as regulars, and they often play with players new to the site. They find the free tourneys a great way for them to get used to the software and gain some experience in how tournaments run before moving on to play in more competitive tourneys for ACBL and BBO Masterpoints. I notice many regulars that have started in our free tourneys as new members and watch them accumulate Masterpoint ranks over the years.

I truly hope this is nothing more than a trial balloon and it is promptly popped and deflated and tossed away. It is time to go back to what was promised and start INCREASING the size of free tourneys during off-peak hours, not crippling them.
0

#8 User is offline   Rfulrabbit 

  • Pip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 4
  • Joined: 2020-June-18

Posted 2020-June-18, 18:43

I do not object to the conditions set for the month of July, as the few games I run already comply with those conditions.

Many membership websites offer restricted services at no cost and sometimes I upgrade when I realize the cost is worth the usefulness of the service.

I feel people were abusing the system by setting multiple games to avoid the limits and also were making unflattering comments concerning BBO. After all they have been enjoying free games for 20 years.

I hope to be able to continue to offer free games, even if small, even if one per day or one per week. Which is what I stated to BBO I would do years ago.

I hope to be able to continue to play free games as well.

I could not possibly pay to play on a daily basis. Currency Exchange is deadly.
0

#9 User is offline   scarletv 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 288
  • Joined: 2009-April-27
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Germany, Bavaria

Posted 2020-June-19, 05:16

BBO-run tournaments cannot really replace private run tournaments. Not everyone wants to play ACBL-like rules and we all including BBO participated from the effort private hosts made. I am sad to see where the way seems to direct to. Actually I am running one tourney a week with my account. When BBO reduces the number of tourneys I will no longer be able to run a team match without deleting the prepared tourney. I cannot copy the tourney any longer. I dont see a good reason for doing that besides pushing players to pay tournaments.
0

#10 User is offline   paulg 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,443
  • Joined: 2003-April-26
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Scottish Borders

Posted 2020-June-19, 08:23

View Postscarletv, on 2020-June-19, 05:16, said:

I dont see a good reason for doing that besides pushing players to pay tournaments.

I suspect, but don't know, that there are a couple of reasons:
  • If Virtual Clubs continue to grow, which seems likely with NBOs cancelling a lot of bridge later this year, then restricting free tournaments is a potential way of protecting the platform so that tournaments run by these clubs run more efficiently.
  • There are some large clubs running free tournaments but using their own payment methods to charge players to avoid using a Virtual Club and incurring BBO's fees. Since these are typically larger tournaments the measures proposed will make these tournaments harder to run.

The Beer Card

I don't work for BBO and any advice is based on my BBO experience over the decades
0

#11 User is offline   SaintQ 

  • Pip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1
  • Joined: 2019-November-10

Posted 2020-June-19, 22:47

I am unable to create either team matches or new tournaments today. I wonder if this is bug or is anyone else having the same problem?
0

#12 User is offline   Vampyr 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,085
  • Joined: 2009-September-15
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:London

Posted 2020-June-19, 23:37

View Postpaulg, on 2020-June-19, 08:23, said:

I suspect, but don't know, that there are a couple of reasons:
  • If Virtual Clubs continue to grow, which seems likely with NBOs cancelling a lot of bridge later this year, then restricting free tournaments is a potential way of protecting the platform so that tournaments run by these clubs run more efficiently.
  • There are some large clubs running free tournaments but using their own payment methods to charge players to avoid using a Virtual Club and incurring BBO's fees. Since these are typically larger tournaments the measures proposed will make these tournaments harder to run.



It doesn’t seem right that a club is collecting money for their games but not paying anything to BBO. Before they became Virtual Clubs they had to pay for their venue!
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
0

#13 User is offline   sfi 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,703
  • Joined: 2009-May-18
  • Location:Oz

Posted 2020-June-19, 23:39

View PostVampyr, on 2020-June-19, 23:37, said:

It doesn’t seem right that a club is collecting money for their games but not paying anything to BBO. Before they became Virtual Clubs they had to pay for their venue!

This was explicitly forbidden in the instructions we received earlier this year. I don't know if the agreements with NBOs are consistent, but I would expect it to be in all the recent ones.
0

#14 User is offline   Vampyr 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,085
  • Joined: 2009-September-15
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:London

Posted 2020-June-20, 01:22

View Postsfi, on 2020-June-19, 23:39, said:

This was explicitly forbidden in the instructions we received earlier this year. I don't know if the agreements with NBOs are consistent, but I would expect it to be in all the recent ones.


Our club and NBO are contributing to BBO.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
0

#15 User is offline   jpffgood 

  • Pip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1
  • Joined: 2020-June-20

Posted 2020-June-20, 01:35

Good morning to all bridge lovers, and of course to all those who daily provide this site to thousands of players to play this exciting game.
Let me say that I am very sad and disappointed with the new changes.
Point 1- There is no consideration for those who for years contributed to the BBO being what it is today. In my case thousands of nights every day, Christmas days and New Year's Eve inclusive. I made and continue to do it with pleasure without any personal interest, or goals within the BBO, unlike others, advising in an self-interested way, who knows, suggestions with the purpose of forcing players to register in other tournaments, where they don't feel well .
I jpffgood, I have the full Portuguese tournament every day. Why? The best thing would be for BBO to ask people why - I was always cordial, respectful and available to help.
I have always done BRIDGE NIGHTS welcoming all Portuguese, but above all I have always been at BBO and in life with truth without manipulation.
I never argued with the BBO with altered facts or personal vanity My conduct and assessment of these years, there is only one way to explain. Talking to those who play our tournament.More !! I have authorization to do two tournaments for many years, at the time of JP's HEROES, but I never used it so as not to harm the Portuguese directors at this time, despite someone proposing to do both where he would be like TD in the other. For me that would be a huge lack of character. Well, I have so many things that I would like to talk to people in charge of within BBO. As well as entering as a substitute and being put on the street in a supposedly Portuguese tournament, with a BBOm TD just because the player who fell, had returned, without any satisfaction, if only they asked, but no !!! This is a lack of respect and more I believe there are hidden interests. But anyway.
Now I cannot be satisfied, with the convenient limitations of those who arrogantly find themselves now with players forced to play their tournaments due to the BBO's impediment.
Second point, what to do and tell those who play the tournament every day, when they are left out?
Third, am I obliged to block many foreign friends from entering so that the Portuguese can play? This I call xenophobia.
Fourth, this is the reward and consideration for those hosts who for years have given BBO a lot of self.
Fifth. I am grateful to BBO, because it contributed to my recovery, at a very serious time, here I always found human warmth, fun and solidarity.
Sixth, I believe that the BBO or the responsible ones are being badly advised, to the point that they are spoiling something good, when in reality they could make changes, where the financial return and the growth of the BBO would be a reality, how? It is simple, all directors of free tournaments would be obliged to make a tournament, at least to pay, out of the usual hour, or more than one, thus it would continue to satisfy and even increase the possible financial return, because I understand, as fair, not putting a revolt at risk, to the point that tomorrow there will be another bridge site and assist a defendant. I would not like that to happen.
BBO is like my home, although I never expressed it to the boss, because my way of being is to represent honestly and sincerely, the values ​​with principles, obviously dignifying this site.
jpffgood
0

#16 User is offline   pescetom 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,305
  • Joined: 2014-February-18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Italy

Posted 2020-June-20, 15:00

BBO said:

You currently have permission to create free tournaments on our platform. You will be able to continue to host free tournaments until August 1st, as follows:

- You will be able to create and run free tournaments at any hour, 24/7.


Leaving all other aspects aside, has anyone now tried to create and run a free tournament in "peak time" as promised here?
I tried this evening (21.05 WET) but the tournament blew up on start with "Error= ".
The tournament used saved deals which is fragile, but it was a previous used folder and creation seemed normal.
It had 20 players registered and 7 boards.
0

#17 User is offline   Rfulrabbit 

  • Pip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 4
  • Joined: 2020-June-18

Posted 2020-June-20, 17:17

I registered for a game this pm and git an error.
The new conditions start July 1st.
0

#18 User is offline   barmar 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Admin
  • Posts: 19,951
  • Joined: 2004-August-21
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2020-June-22, 09:03

 Vampyr, on 2020-June-19, 23:37, said:

It doesn’t seem right that a club is collecting money for their games but not paying anything to BBO. Before they became Virtual Clubs they had to pay for their venue!

BBO gets a portion of the entry fees.

#19 User is offline   Vampyr 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,085
  • Joined: 2009-September-15
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:London

Posted 2020-June-22, 10:17

 barmar, on 2020-June-22, 09:03, said:

BBO gets a portion of the entry fees.


Maybe you didn’t see the comments bout clubs who are hosting free games and collecting entry fees in another way.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
0

#20 User is offline   wnt53 

  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 17
  • Joined: 2016-October-07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, England
  • Interests:Bridge (obviously); Genealogy; Web 2.0; Italy; Rugby Union; F1;

Posted 2020-June-25, 21:55

View Postwnt53, on 2020-June-18, 03:13, said:

Just had this drop into my inbox. Am I alone? Is there any appeal? My c150 players are going to be seriously miffed.
Had an update from BBO yesterday

Quote

There will always be free games on BBO.
In addition, BBO will offer hosting rights, with small monthly subscription. It
is a work in progress and we will timely inform players when all details are
known.
So, we wait with bated breath...
0

Share this topic:


  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users