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How to avoid play in a five-four fit in a major in a competitive auction

#1 User is offline   danailov 

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Posted 2020-May-18, 15:41

I watch an interesting hand in a BBO match. It was obvious that 3NT is much better than 4. But how to get there? This is the deal:


Board#10. E/All
The bidding was:

1 1 ?

1) You play transfers and start with double
2) Bid 1

My opinion is east hand should ignore the fact that he has four-card support and just rebids notrump.
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#2 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2020-May-18, 16:48

This is somewhat resulting, west has exactly the right club holding for the E hand, not so good if they rumble 5 club tricks because dummy has 9xx with both red kings right
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#3 User is offline   danailov 

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Posted 2020-May-18, 17:37

View PostCyberyeti, on 2020-May-18, 16:48, said:

This is somewhat resulting, west has exactly the right club holding for the E hand, not so good if they rumble 5 club tricks because dummy has 9xx with both red kings right

Playing 3NT has few advantages. Diamonds lead giving the 9th trick immediately. Hearts finesse give the 9th trick also. Against 4 opponents can start with 3 rounds of clubs and ruff the last one. Even with a heart finesse on you may go down in 4 by losing three clubs and one diamond. The layout in this particular
board is one more example of how much better to play 3NT.
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#4 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2020-May-18, 19:07

I am virtually sure that any pair whose style is to rebid 1N with the east hand will be a very weak pair, getting lots of terrible results. Quit worrying about masterminding, and support with support. Bidding 2H (either raising a natural 1H or jumping in response to the transfer, to show 4) doesn’t always bar one from notrump, but suppressing hearts always bars one from a 4-4 fit. So the cards are bad for 4H? So what? Design your bidding to cater to the occasional unlucky result, and you’ll have a lot more ‘unlucky’ results, from being in silly contracts.

Also, if west treats his hand as invitational, east should listen to the auction and downgrade this soft, flat hand with the likely wasted diamond Queen....tho since I play 14-16 1N, I’m always getting to 4H😒
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
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#5 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2020-May-19, 02:29

View Postmikeh, on 2020-May-18, 19:07, said:

I am virtually sure that any pair whose style is to rebid 1N with the east hand will be a very weak pair, getting lots of terrible results. Quit worrying about masterminding, and support with support. Bidding 2H (either raising a natural 1H or jumping in response to the transfer, to show 4) doesn’t always bar one from notrump, but suppressing hearts always bars one from a 4-4 fit. So the cards are bad for 4H? So what? Design your bidding to cater to the occasional unlucky result, and you’ll have a lot more ‘unlucky’ results, from being in silly contracts.

Also, if west treats his hand as invitational, east should listen to the auction and downgrade this soft, flat hand with the likely wasted diamond Queen....tho since I play 14-16 1N, I’m always getting to 4H😒


Very much agree with the first paragraph, our auction playing 12-14 NT is 1N-2-2N (max 3433) now W is in the hot seat to choose between 3/4 or suggest 3N all of which are in the frame.
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#6 User is offline   AL78 

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Posted 2020-May-19, 02:39

View PostCyberyeti, on 2020-May-19, 02:29, said:

Very much agree with the first paragraph, our auction playing 12-14 NT is 1N-2-2N (max 3433) now W is in the hot seat to choose between 3/4 or suggest 3N all of which are in the frame.


If opener can show 4333 with four hearts in a transfer auction, there is more incentive for West to bid 3NT instead of 4H. 5332 opposite 4333 often makes as many tricks in NT as the major even with a nine card fit.
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#7 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2020-May-19, 02:42

View Postdanailov, on 2020-May-18, 15:41, said:

It was obvious that 3NT is much better than 4.


Why do you think it is obvious? It is not obvious to me.

View PostCyberyeti, on 2020-May-18, 16:48, said:

west has exactly the right club holding for the E hand


North/south seem to have a very suitable holding too with the clubs blocked. If south has (say) AK1043 opposite 85 then south will lead the suit and four club tricks will be established to go with the king of hearts.
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#8 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2020-May-19, 02:53

View PostTramticket, on 2020-May-19, 02:42, said:


North/south seem to have a very suitable holding too with the clubs blocked. If south has (say) AK1043 opposite 85 then south will lead the suit and four club tricks will be established to go with the king of hearts.


Yes but 4 doesn't make either with the ruff in fact it's -2 if he switches to a diamond
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#9 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2020-May-19, 08:55

View Postdanailov, on 2020-May-18, 17:37, said:

Playing 3NT has few advantages. Diamonds lead giving the 9th trick immediately. Hearts finesse give the 9th trick also. Against 4 opponents can start with 3 rounds of clubs and ruff the last one. Even with a heart finesse on you may go down in 4 by losing three clubs and one diamond. The layout in this particular
board is one more example of how much better to play 3NT.


3NT has few advantages, and is much better? Which is it?

Anyway how do you plan to diagnose in the auction that clubs are blocked?
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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#10 User is offline   Trinidad 

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Posted 2020-May-19, 11:39

View PostVampyr, on 2020-May-19, 08:55, said:

3NT has few advantages, and is much better? Which is it?

Anyway how do you plan to diagnose in the auction that clubs are blocked?

I think that you can figure from the OP's name that English is not his native language. And the English language has a very peculiar way of dealing with the word "few":
  • "Few" means "practically none".
  • "A few" means "some".
  • "Quite a few" does not mean fewer than "a few", no it means more than "a few", as in "a decent number".


So, I guess that Danailov really intended to state that "3NT has a few advantages" (or perhaps even "quite a few").

It's only one letter, but it's an important one.

Rik

Rik
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#11 User is offline   danailov 

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Posted 2020-May-19, 12:25

View Postmikeh, on 2020-May-18, 19:07, said:

I am virtually sure that any pair whose style is to rebid 1N with the east hand will be a very weak pair, getting lots of terrible results. Quit worrying about masterminding, and support with support. Bidding 2H (either raising a natural 1H or jumping in response to the transfer, to show 4) doesn’t always bar one from notrump, but suppressing hearts always bars one from a 4-4 fit. So the cards are bad for 4H? So what? Design your bidding to cater to the occasional unlucky result, and you’ll have a lot more ‘unlucky’ results, from being in silly contracts.

Also, if west treats his hand as invitational, east should listen to the auction and downgrade this soft, flat hand with the likely wasted diamond Queen....tho since I play 14-16 1N, I’m always getting to 4H😒


If the bidding start with 1NT(14-16) it's very likely to stop in 3NT. Most of the points in east's hand are in the side suits, no shortness, west will show 5332, so I didn't see why should play in Hearts. It doesn't make sense to go one level up and to give the opponents a chance for ruff(s).
I think that the overcall must change the stereotype of east's mind, and to push him to bid NT in a prospect to protect Q. The four-card support makes easier to clear the suit and you have nothing to ruff.
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#12 User is offline   manudude03 

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Posted 2020-May-19, 14:43

View Postdanailov, on 2020-May-19, 12:25, said:

If the bidding start with 1NT(14-16) it's very likely to stop in 3NT. Most of the points in east's hand are in the side suits, no shortness, west will show 5332, so I didn't see why should play in Hearts. It doesn't make sense to go one level up and to give the opponents a chance for ruff(s).
I think that the overcall must change the stereotype of east's mind, and to push him to bid NT in a prospect to protect Q. The four-card support makes easier to clear the suit and you have nothing to ruff.


And how do you propose the bidding would go if you switched West's minors?
Wayne Somerville
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#13 User is offline   danailov 

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Posted 2020-May-20, 09:49

View PostTrinidad, on 2020-May-19, 11:39, said:

I think that you can figure from the OP's name that English is not his native language. And the English language has a very peculiar way of dealing with the word "few":
  • "Few" means "practically none".
  • "A few" means "some".
  • "Quite a few" does not mean fewer than "a few", no it means more than "a few", as in "a decent number".


So, I guess that Danailov really intended to state that "3NT has a few advantages" (or perhaps even "quite a few").

It's only one letter, but it's an important one.

Rik

Rik


I apologize for my bad English. Thanks for the tips!
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