[decone]

If a player plays a card and is is exposed he then asks for an undo the opponent rejected the undo, can the played insist on the undo?
When is an exposed card not an exposed card

[johnu]

decone, on 2020-May-12, 03:24, said:

If a player plays a card and is is exposed he then asks for an undo the opponent rejected the undo, can the played insist on the undo?
When is an exposed card not an exposed card

Certainly you can insist on a redo. And your opponent can reject your undo. You can always change tables.

[decone]

What if it is in a challenge match? My own feeling is an exposed card is an exposed card.My question is what circumstances will allow for an undo?

[paulg]

From the BBO rules of the site (https://online.bridg.../doc_rules.html):

"All members have the right to reject an undo, redeal, or claim request for any reason. Members are not required to explain why they have rejected such a request and it is inappropriate for a player to be offended if one of his requests is rejected. If your undo, redeal, or claim is rejected and you do not want to play at the current table anymore, finish the current deal and send a polite chat message before leaving."

Tournament Organisers may establish their own rules in this regard.

[decone]

Thanks Paulg,
Your reply deals with the reject and you explained it very well however it is the exposed card and the request for the undo that troubles me.Is it reasonable to make such a request if you are playing at a table and put out a card your partner could see it is then exposed why should that be different on line?
Thanks
Yours in Bridge
Decone

"All members have the right to reject an undo, redeal, or claim request for any reason. Members are not required to explain why they have rejected such a request and it is inappropriate for a player to be offended if one of his requests is rejected. If your undo, redeal, or claim is rejected and you do not want to play at the current table anymore, finish the current deal and send a polite chat message before leaving."

Tournament Organisers may establish their own rules in this regard.
[/quote]

[sfi]

It depends very much on the seriousness of the game. If it's just a casual table or among friends, I'm almost certainly going to allow the undo request. If it's a more serious competition, it will depend on the conditions of contest.

For example, I'm directing a club game at the moment. We explicitly allow undo requests because many people are new to the interface and we want to encourage them to not be nervous about it. At some point we may change that policy.

[paulg]

decone, on 2020-May-12, 05:19, said:

Your reply deals with the reject and you explained it very well however it is the exposed card and the request for the undo that troubles me.Is it reasonable to make such a request if you are playing at a table and put out a card your partner could see it is then exposed why should that be different on line?

There is no simple answer to this question.

We've seen one of the world's best players get very upset when he was not permitted an undo after a misclick on the opening lead. To him, it was 'obvious' and the exposed card was not an issue; his opponents thought otherwise.

Many tournament organisers prohibit undos to prevent such incidents, but of course this leads to the occasional silly result. Another reason that they may choose this option is because they do not have the time or experience to rule on the UI issues that may arise.

Everyone has their own ethical standards and this is why BBO put out its advice. We each deal with it in our own way.

[Vampyr]

All that is necessary to prevent undos is to choose the option to confirm bids and plays. If people do not have the foresight to do this, they should not complain if any and all of their undo requests are rejected.

Of course penalty card laws and UI considerations must be observed online. So when there is an undo, it is necessary to have a director present until the penalty card is disposed of, and to make sure that the UI is not utilised. This is a good reason not to allow Andrews ever. I never do it and never will.

[decone]

Thanks everyone that Q as most helpful I do appreciate your input
Decone

[pescetom]

Vampyr, on 2020-May-12, 07:02, said:

All that is necessary to prevent undos is to choose the option to confirm bids and plays. If people do not have the foresight to do this, they should not complain if any and all of their undo requests are rejected.

Of course penalty card laws and UI considerations must be observed online. So when there is an undo, it is necessary to have a director present until the penalty card is disposed of, and to make sure that the UI is not utilised. This is a good reason not to allow Andrews ever. I never do it and never will.

Is Andrews even worse than Michaels?

Just kidding, and I too do not enable Undo in tournaments. Neither WBF nor my RA has any clear guidance for online play, so I'm forced to decide alone here. I haven't yet had time to study the latest EBU online rules but IIRC the previous ones obliged TD to enable Undo to cope with bidding misclicks, considered equivalent to mechanical error with a bidding box. I'm already not very happy with that, and totally against undo of plays, so not a hard decision.

Not that I have a high opinion of the BBO confirm mechanism which could and should be a whole lot better, at least when playing on a touch screen. I have already described my idea of how in detail several times but I'm happy to repeat if necessary. I don't use the current mechanism myself but I would if it were better.