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Please Explain this bidding

#1 User is offline   Giggleslrm 

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Posted 2020-May-07, 09:33

In a speedball tournament yesterday, Opp's bidding went 1 H, 1 S, 3 H, 7H. They were the only pair to bid this, which made. Both Opp profiles said advanced/expert, which I am not. Can anyone explain this bidding to me?
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#2 User is offline   KingCovert 

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Posted 2020-May-07, 11:08

It's really not complex bidding, but, perhaps we could better explain the bidding to you if we could see the hands.

1H-3H by opener shows a better hand than 1H-2H, long hearts in either sequence, but it's not as strong (nor game-forcing for some/most) as say 1H-3C would be. Responder bid 1S in response and decided that they knew enough to bid grand, perhaps that was a stupid decision that happened to work, or perhaps they can simply count enough tricks.

Good contracts don't always make, you'll do better playing contracts with good play, for a grand slam that is usually somewhere around 75%-80% chance of making for most. Perhaps they simply thought those odds were likely at this point and couldn't imagine not playing grand, and decided to forego the dog and pony show of ace asking sequences. I'd assume responder was holding a hand full of keycards.
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#3 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2020-May-07, 11:30

What was the hand that bid 7 ? if I had say AKxxxxx, Axx, AKx, void and was playing WJS I might follow that sequence and be pretty confident.
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#4 User is online   sfi 

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Posted 2020-May-07, 16:29



It looks like a bad bid that got lucky. Neither bid from East is going to get much support from a bidding panel.
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#5 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2020-May-07, 17:10

View Postsfi, on 2020-May-07, 16:29, said:



It looks like a bad bid that got lucky. Neither bid from East is going to get much support from a bidding panel.


Agreed, you should bid a grand I think anyway, but which one ? there are cases for 7/7/7N, but E's 2 bids are unbelievable, he deserved to catch KQ, AJ109xxx, Qxx, A
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#6 User is offline   dsLawsd 

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Posted 2020-May-08, 02:49

View PostCyberyeti, on 2020-May-07, 17:10, said:

Agreed, you should bid a grand I think anyway, but which one ? there are cases for 7/7/7N, but E's 2 bids are unbelievable, he deserved to catch KQ, AJ109xxx, Qxx, A


And we hope they did not have a wire on the board- perhaps they were just shooting for a top?
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#7 User is offline   nudnikbp 

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Posted 2020-May-08, 05:35

So in other words, East can use RKCB and if West has three key cards, then East can bid 7NT?
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#8 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2020-May-08, 07:00

View Postnudnikbp, on 2020-May-08, 05:35, said:

So in other words, East can use RKCB and if West has three key cards, then East can bid 7NT?


3 key cards and K counts 12 off the top even if the hearts don't run, 7N is at least as good as 7, 7 is better if neither opp has more than 4 clubs.
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#9 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2020-May-08, 07:11

From the looks of thing,

West made a slight overbid

East took a chance and it paid off
Alderaan delenda est
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#10 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2020-May-08, 07:53

View Posthrothgar, on 2020-May-08, 07:11, said:

From the looks of thing,

West made a slight overbid

East took a chance and it paid off


You haven't commented on 1 rather than 2
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#11 User is offline   MP7601 

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Posted 2020-May-08, 09:49

I guess the fact that it was a speedball affected the choice of bids, maybe they were down to two minutes per board and had to decide on a contract quickly?

There are also some tournaments I heard of in which each pair can only make 4 bids on each board, in which the same would occur
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#12 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2020-May-08, 09:58

View PostCyberyeti, on 2020-May-08, 07:53, said:

You haven't commented on 1 rather than 2


Ever heard the expression MAFIA (Majors Always First In Answering)?

1 would not be my choice playing standard methods, however, its hardly the worst bid that I have ever seen
Alderaan delenda est
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#13 User is offline   Sir John D 

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Posted 2020-May-08, 12:38

View Postsfi, on 2020-May-07, 16:29, said:



It looks like a bad bid that got lucky. Neither bid from East is going to get much support from a bidding panel.

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#14 User is offline   Sir John D 

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Posted 2020-May-08, 12:57

I am an Acol player that is used to ordinary tournaments and if my partner had opened 1!h, then I would expect to be in a slam, but which one?

I would delay the game slightly, by responding 2!c, which shows 10 points and at least 4 clubs.

When my partner rebids 3!h, then I can start to guess what they have. With my 19 HCP and partner's expected 15+ HCP, then I can 'see' at least 34 HCP, and at least a 7-card heart fit.

What is my partner's distribution? With at least 6 hearts, they have 7 other cards. I need to check if I can protect those losers? I can estimate 2 losers in my hand. I would need to know if they have the Aces and King of Hearts. I would expect losers to go on the clubs.

So, in an ordinary tournament I would go to RKCB based on 1430 answers. With the right answers, then I would be looking for 7nt.

However, this concept of speedball is the issue here. I have not played in such a tournament but can imagine that speed is of the essence. In Goulash competitions, the regular players create a particular method of bidding to match the type of hands to expect. I can imagine that playing at speed would need such a system to manage the speed.

At speed, perhaps the majority would go for 6!h, and so to ensure a win, perhaps a bid at the 7 level is necessary.

Wish you could ask the bidders as it would be useful to know their thinking.

Keep safe
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#15 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2020-May-08, 13:57

View PostMP7601, on 2020-May-08, 09:49, said:

I guess the fact that it was a speedball affected the choice of bids, maybe they were down to two minutes per board and had to decide on a contract quickly?

There are also some tournaments I heard of in which each pair can only make 4 bids on each board, in which the same would occur


That is a Christmas party sort of thing though.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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#16 User is offline   bluenikki 

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Posted 2020-May-08, 15:14

View Postsfi, on 2020-May-07, 16:29, said:



It looks like a bad bid that got lucky. Neither bid from East is going to get much support from a bidding panel.


The sensible wild gamble is 5NT
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#17 User is offline   661_Pete 

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Posted 2020-May-09, 02:59

My feeling is, BBO has plenty of instances of "bad bid that got lucky". I've seen other examples. Anyone want to comment on this?

I wasn't playing this, only kibitzing. As the cards lay, North made ten tricks without difficulty after hearts split 3-1. E later explained that X was for takeout, but W obviously thought different!

Thing is, third seat after two passes, I would never have opened 4 on that hand. With the 6-5-1-1 to help, it's good enough for 1. The bidding would have probably reached 4 anyway, but E would have been unlikely to double - even though they had two AK's.

But maybe I'm wrong?
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#18 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2020-May-09, 03:19

View Post661_Pete, on 2020-May-09, 02:59, said:

My feeling is, BBO has plenty of instances of "bad bid that got lucky". I've seen other examples. Anyone want to comment on this?

I wasn't playing this, only kibitzing. As the cards lay, North made ten tricks without difficulty after hearts split 3-1. E later explained that X was for takeout, but W obviously thought different!

Thing is, third seat after two passes, I would never have opened 4 on that hand. With the 6-5-1-1 to help, it's good enough for 1. The bidding would have probably reached 4 anyway, but E would have been unlikely to double - even though they had two AK's.

But maybe I'm wrong?


One of the better players in my area has long championed this type of bid, it's not crazy, and particularly against not great opps you will be playing 4 rather than defending 4 much more of the time if you get there in one go.
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#19 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2020-May-09, 05:16

View Post661_Pete, on 2020-May-09, 02:59, said:

My feeling is, BBO has plenty of instances of "bad bid that got lucky". I've seen other examples. Anyone want to comment on this?




Sour grapes

Plenty of good players will gamble in third seat.

Paul Marston used to advocate that 7-4 hands get opened either 4M / 5m under the theory that the auction is going to get crazy and you might as well force a guess on the opponents...
Alderaan delenda est
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#20 User is offline   paleale 

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Posted 2020-May-09, 07:40

Sounds like a bid with robots involved, or a wire
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