[TylerE]

msjennifer, on 2020-March-11, 09:58, said:

Sirs, The 3C bid on the responders given hand is just not acceptable.3C bid is made when responder has one or both ONLY 4 carded major/s .

Please don't reply without reading. OP is playing puppet.

[mikeh]

Cyberyeti, on 2020-March-11, 10:37, said:

Mike, what range would 2N (or a 2N rebid after 2♣) need to be for you to look for a slam ?

I would need either a better suit, say Qxxxx, or a better hand. Not much better, but moving towards slam when one’s likely primary source of tricks is very weak rarely works out, absent good values elsewhere.

Btw, bidding 3S then 3N is not giving up on slam. See my post about what I think north should bid over 3N.

Give me the same hcp and, say, 5=2=1=5, and I bid 4C over 3S. We can still play 4N after that start, btw.

I don’t believe in simply adding points. Points don’t take tricks. On this hand, for slam to be good, we need either good spades opposite, or a big club fit and a perfect mesh. As it happens, we have both. Of course, when that’s the case, we don’t need to take charge as responder. I admit that I’ll miss some slams: say he has AKx Kxx Axx AQJx. Slam is pretty good and if he has KJx in hearts, even better. But one cannot reach every good contract without also reaching too many bad ones. At least, that’s true, imo, of 99% of bridge players.

[Cyberyeti]

mikeh, on 2020-March-11, 14:56, said:

I would need either a better suit, say Qxxxx, or a better hand. Not much better, but moving towards slam when one’s likely primary source of tricks is very weak rarely works out, absent good values elsewhere.

Btw, bidding 3S then 3N is not giving up on slam. See my post about what I think north should bid over 3N.

Give me the same hcp and, say, 5=2=1=5, and I bid 4C over 3S. We can still play 4N after that start, btw.

I don’t believe in simply adding points. Points don’t take tricks. On this hand, for slam to be good, we need either good spades opposite, or a big club fit and a perfect mesh. As it happens, we have both. Of course, when that’s the case, we don’t need to take charge as responder. I admit that I’ll miss some slams: say he has AKx Kxx Axx AQJx. Slam is pretty good and if he has KJx in hearts, even better. But one cannot reach every good contract without also reaching too many bad ones. At least, that’s true, imo, of 99% of bridge players.

That wasn't what I meant, I meant if you had that actual 7 count, would you consider rebidding something other than 3N opposite 22-23/23-24/24-25 etc

[mikeh]

Cyberyeti, on 2020-March-11, 15:05, said:

That wasn't what I meant, I meant if you had that actual 7 count, would you consider rebidding something other than 3N opposite 22-23/23-24/24-25 etc

In my partnerships, after 2C 2D, we can show 22-23/24-25, etc

Obviously I move over 24-25, but over 22-23 I transfer and bid 3N. I learned years ago to ALWAYS pull to the major with 3 card support. I suppose one could construct an exception, but the rule has served me well. The reason is that responder, with a 2-suiter, often can’t show the second suit, with a minimum, and 3N plays worse, sometimes much worse, than 4M. This is quite unlike 1N auctions, where responder can show shape below 3N

So here, with that dreadful spade suit, I bid 3N, and expect partner to pull and to cuebid, when he does so, with a great hand, and off to slam we go

There’s no need for responder to make all the decisions. Bridge is a partnership game.

[Povratnik]

Slightly off topic, but I'll be very short:

msjennifer, on 2020-March-11, 09:58, said:

... Additionally we use Ron Klingers treatment of 2NT openers..THANKS

Madam, I know nothing about Ron Klinger's treatment of 2NT openers. Are there a free resource where I can read about that?

[msjennifer]

Cyberyeti, on 2020-March-11, 10:37, said:

Mike, what range would 2N (or a 2N rebid after 2♣) need to be for you to look for a slam ?

Sir,the fist two sentences of your comment are absolutely genuine comments.We very often see the so-called bidding(unimaginable in practice on the table) when one sees all cards after the deal is over.We label such players as "MR/MRS 52" . I ,politely, make it absolutely clear that I have no intention of ridiculing anyone . P.S, sorry ,but this was a reply to Sir Mikeh.

[msjennifer]

Povratnik, on 2020-March-11, 18:16, said:

Slightly off topic, but I'll be very short:


Madam, I know nothing about Ron Klinger's treatment of 2NT openers. Are there a free resource where I can read about that?

SIR,First let me correct the address. I am not Madam yet.The mentioned treatment was handed over me by my Grandfather .It was published in the American publication "Bridge World "monthly magazine in the seventies.It may possibly be available on the net or from Ron Klinger site He conducts classes and also writes a daily column available from the net.He has represented Australia.This information is strictly for personal use and may not be considered an advertisement. If I find it again I may email a copy of the same to you.THANKS.

[msjennifer]

TylerE, on 2020-March-11, 11:18, said:

Please don't reply without reading. OP is playing puppet.

Sir,I DID read indeed.I have absolutely no intention of denying S the freedom of using Puppet as and when he likes. Your earlier comment also asks S not to consider too much and just transfer.My comment was in relation to THIS PARTICULAR hand.If one still wishes to locate a five card heart suit ,very well.Practically all the posters have made the Transfer bid and no one has used puppet .Thanks

[miamijd]

The overarching trouble here is with your 2NT bid. Above a 15-17 1NT call, you just can't afford to have three-point ranges.
It leaves responder guessing as to what to do. You need two-point ranges, which is why Kokish was invented.

If you play 20-22, then the auction should go as my Canadian attorney counterpart suggested:

2NT 3H
3S 3NT
4C 4D

4C ought to show 4-5 clubs (probably 5), 3-4 spades (you would pass 3NT with 2 spades), and a maximum (otherwise, you'd just settle for four spades). Now responder can cue-bid the diamond control to show a max, and now you should get to 6C.

with 2NT 20-22 here is that responder then isn't good enough to bid 4C over 3S to suggest a slammish hand with a second suit. He has to settle for 3NT


It's a lot easier if you play 20-21 2NT and 22-23 2C then 2NT. Then responder can make a 4C bid here:

2C 2D
2NT 3H
3S 4C

And now I think getting to 6C is pretty pedestrian.

Cheers
Mike

[tonycherr]

If you have decided to look for a Heart fit you must also decide not to play in 3NT, (it would be great if partner has 5 Hearts as you can ruff Diamonds in the short hand) so you must bid 4S when Partner bids 3NT it is very likely North has 3 card spade support. In this case the lead coming up to this hand is not a problem. The sequence is only a problem if partner has 2 Spades 4 or fewer Hearts and good stoppers in Diamonds.