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We can begin an extended farewell

#1 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2019-December-12, 16:49

To Sterling, because we certainly won’t get to keep that when we go crawling back to the EU in a few years’ time, and enjoy much worse terms than we have now.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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#2 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2019-December-12, 16:55

This won't happen under a conservative government, but not sure what will happen if they get voted out in 5 years time
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#3 User is offline   FelicityR 

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Posted 2019-December-12, 17:29

Britain leaving the EU will be the catalyst for other countries to follow. As I said previously, I like the idea of being a member of the EU, but I don't like how our citizens have been taken for granted for so long.

The EU will have to take a long look at itself and the way it operates in the next five years, too, and it needs to be reformed on many levels.

I voted Green, by the way, because Greta Thunberg is right: every election the world over is about climate change. My vote was for my children and grandchildren.

As for Sterling, I'm not an economist but I do know that our coins and notes actually feel more like real money than the Monopoly money of the Euro which feels and looks fake. The IMF and ECB are run by bankers for bankers and to make rich people richer, etc. My friends living in Greece say that the Greek people are still very resentful of how their proud country was decimated by the European banks.

That said, I do not welcome another 5 years of Conservative government in this country. Our own country has already suffered greatly under the Conservatives. Will things get better? Only time will tell...
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#4 User is offline   Aberlour10 

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Posted 2019-December-12, 17:54

Perfect timing to leave.. You won*t loose a single tax pound in the biggest money burning project any times...which is starting tonight in Brussels (Green Deal )......Run Britain run ;-)
Preempts are Aberlour's best bridge friends
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#5 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2019-December-12, 21:16

View PostCyberyeti, on 2019-December-12, 16:55, said:

This won't happen under a conservative government, but not sure what will happen if they get voted out in 5 years time


Well, yes, that is the sort of timeframe I am thinking about. This could change, though, if it really starts to sting. I think that our best hope now is that we get Brexit in name only. Or something could happen as suggested below. Sweden almost has its hand on the doorknob. Denmark? We could potentially end up with a Northern Europe free trade/movement alliance. This group would have the clout to forge an agreement with the “old” EU that will be fair to everyone.

I know, this is fantasyland, but at least there is a better chance of the Conservatives getting out, since Corbyn will resign and Labour will get an actual electable leader. Well, we all thought he would resign in 2015, but surely this time ...?
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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#6 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2019-December-13, 05:24

View PostVampyr, on 2019-December-12, 21:16, said:

I know, this is fantasyland, but at least there is a better chance of the Conservatives getting out, since Corbyn will resign and Labour will get an actual electable leader. Well, we all thought he would resign in 2015, but surely this time ...?


Corbyn will resign, but do you think the half a million Trots that joined to back him will support a sensible leader ?
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#7 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2019-December-13, 06:38

It will be amusing to see Scotland as a country once again...
Alderaan delenda est
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#8 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2019-December-13, 09:04

View Posthrothgar, on 2019-December-13, 06:38, said:

It will be amusing to see Scotland as a country once again...


Not for a while, it was made clear that the last independence referendum was once in a generation, and Boris has to consent to one which he won't in this parliament.
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#9 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2019-December-13, 09:39

View PostCyberyeti, on 2019-December-13, 05:24, said:

Corbyn will resign, but do you think the half a million Trots that joined to back him will support a sensible leader ?


I don’t know. Obviously his supporters are delusional, since they thought he could ever win a general election. In a way it makes me long for home where you vote for the president, not the party. I think that a lot of the people who voted for Labour MPs weren’t Corbynites.

It is really disappointing that in a number of seats the Labour and Lib Dem candidates combined had more votes than the Tories. People need to think long and hard about whether it is tome to introduce
some degree of PR.

Anyway Keir is the frontrunner in the leadership race. He might be a sensible choice.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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#10 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2019-December-13, 10:44

View PostVampyr, on 2019-December-13, 09:39, said:

I don’t know. Obviously his supporters are delusional, since they thought he could ever win a general election. In a way it makes me long for home where you vote for the president, not the party. I think that a lot of the people who voted for Labour MPs weren’t Corbynites.

It is really disappointing that in a number of seats the Labour and Lib Dem candidates combined had more votes than the Tories. People need to think long and hard about whether it is tome to introduce
some degree of PR.

Anyway Keir is the frontrunner in the leadership race. He might be a sensible choice.


In a number of others including shockingly Hartlepool (the most Labour place ever), Labour were elected, whereas they got 15K votes with Tories/Brexit on 11K/10K, so that went both ways.
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#11 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2019-December-13, 10:59

View PostCyberyeti, on 2019-December-13, 09:04, said:

Not for a while, it was made clear that the last independence referendum was once in a generation, and Boris has to consent to one which he won't in this parliament.


Quoting Nigella Sturgeon

Quote

The first minister said she had won “a renewed, refreshed and strengthened mandate” to call for a fresh independence vote after winning 47 of Scotland’s 59 Westminster seats, 11 more than in 2017.

I don’t pretend that every single person who voted SNP yesterday will necessarily support independence, but there has been a strong endorsement in this election of Scotland having a choice over our future; of not having to put up with a Conservative government we didn’t vote for and not having to accept life as a nation outside the EU

Alderaan delenda est
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#12 User is offline   fromageGB 

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Posted 2019-December-13, 11:16

Just because Catalonia wants to leave, it doesn't mean the government will let it.

Things will change if Boris does not give away our fishing rights in the spring. A resurgence of the fishing industry will change many a tune.
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#13 User is offline   fromageGB 

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Posted 2019-December-13, 11:35

View PostVampyr, on 2019-December-13, 09:39, said:

I think that a lot of the people who voted for Labour MPs weren’t Corbynites.

Of course, but I think many that did like his rail/postoffice/utilities/wages/benefits policies. The reason Labour lost was mainly the fact that Labour reneged on Brexit, and that was because of the London elitists who thought that people outside London do not matter. Yes, Corbyn was defective in that he was not a firm enough leader to stand by his beliefs, but subtract that and the Hamas overtones, and I think a younger leader with the same policies would bounce back with a vengeance in 5 years. But that isn't going to happen, I guess.

View PostVampyr, on 2019-December-13, 09:39, said:

People need to think long and hard about whether it is time to introduce some degree of PR.

Put your mind to how it could happen. PR would enfranchise me and 90% of the population, but no main party that actually decides new laws would destroy its means of power.
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#14 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2019-December-13, 11:56

View PostfromageGB, on 2019-December-13, 11:35, said:

Of course, but I think many that did like his rail/postoffice/utilities/wages/benefits policies. The reason Labour lost was mainly the fact that Labour reneged on Brexit, and that was because of the London elitists who thought that people outside London do not matter. Yes, Corbyn was defective in that he was not a firm enough leader to stand by his beliefs, but subtract that and the Hamas overtones, and I think a younger leader with the same policies would bounce back with a vengeance in 5 years. But that isn't going to happen, I guess.


Corbyn's groomed successor got booted out.
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#15 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2019-December-13, 11:56

View PostfromageGB, on 2019-December-13, 11:35, said:

Put your mind to how it could happen. PR would enfranchise me and 90% of the population, but no main party that actually decides new laws would destroy its means of power.


Yeah. The term “public servant” has become a joke.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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