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Psyche?

#1 User is offline   conor6969 

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Posted 2019-October-10, 01:31

Can anyone who played the SIM pairs on Monday ( or not)help me with a ruling. Board 24. Bidding is P, P 1S with 8 HCP and adding the two longest suits only makes 17. No where near the 19/20 I think are needed. Is this a psyche bid? If so, what colour is it? The rest of the bidding went 1NT P 3NT PP X from W. It can make but it didn’t turning a possible top into a bottom.��



[Edited to add hand diagram]
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#2 User is offline   paulg 

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Posted 2019-October-10, 02:15

For anyone who cannot guess what the event is, I presume it is the following board being discussed: https://www.ebu.co.u...00335/boards/24
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#3 User is offline   conor6969 

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Posted 2019-October-10, 02:21

View Postpaulg, on 2019-October-10, 02:15, said:

For anyone who cannot guess what the event is, I presume it is the following board being discussed: https://www.ebu.co.u...00335/boards/24


It is indeed thank you. Conor
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#4 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2019-October-10, 04:14

View Postconor6969, on 2019-October-10, 01:31, said:

Can anyone who played the SIM pairs on Monday ( or not)help me with a ruling. Board 24. Bidding is P, P 1S with 8 HCP and adding the two longest suits only makes 17. No where near the 19/20 I think are needed. Is this a psyche bid? If so, what colour is it? The rest of the bidding went 1NT P 3NT PP X from W. It can make but it didnít turning a possible top into a bottom.😂


What are the pair's agreements?
Alderaan delenda est
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#5 User is offline   paulg 

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Posted 2019-October-10, 04:50

As a new poster you've forgotten to provide some of the relevant details that typically get asked before anyone ventures an answer. Firstly, the jurisdiction which is important for the British Sim Pairs since the EBU and SBU, and perhaps NI, regulations differ. For most of these the relevant system policy is also needed, since even affiliated clubs have their own regulations in addition to differing regimes within most NBOs.

Then, as Richard says, what is the pair's agreement on opening bids, especially in third position?

I'm not a TD, although I often provide advice at my local SBU club, and my process is something like:
- what is their agreement?

- is this agreement legal?
- have they disclosed this agreement properly?
- does this call meet their agreement?
- if not, was it deliberate?
- is it a gross misstatement of honour strength or suit length?

The accredited TDs probably have a better checklist than mine.

In this case I will presume you are playing at an EBU club, using Level 4 partnership agreements which I believe is common in most English clubs.

At Level 4, an opening bid is required to have at least 8+ HCP and, in first or second position, meet the Rule of 18. Therefore, by opening an 8 HCP hand in third position with a natural suit, this is a legal opening call. Is their agreement that they can open this light in third position and is it clear on their system card that they would do so? This might be an implicit agreement if they regularly open light in third position.

If it is their agreement and they have not properly disclosed it, then you may judge it under misinformation regulations.

I suspect it is well below their agreements for an opening bid and that it was a deliberately light opening bid in third position. The question the director will need to establish is whether this is a gross misstatement of honour strength - in my opinion it is probably not.

If it were considered a psych, you would also need to look at whether his partner fielded the action. West here seemed to bid normally, including doubling the final contract; it does not seem to have been fielded.

Overall I'd be unlikely to rule this a psych, but if it were then it would be a green psych with no change to the table result.
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#6 User is offline   sanst 

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Posted 2019-October-10, 05:52

A psych is a gross misstatement of honour strength and/or of suit length. This case doesnít meet that criterion. Actually, I think itís an obvious call in this situation, 3rd seat, nv, both majors and a good 2nd bid. It might be alertable, if youíre in the habit of making calls like this, but thatís dependent on the local regulations.
Joost
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#7 User is offline   VixTD 

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Posted 2019-October-10, 06:25

I would want to know if the pair make a habit of opening light like this, and if so make sure it is disclosed properly on their convention card (or in some other acceptable way, if they don't have convention cards).

If NS had been informed correctly, what difference would it have made? Remember that they are not entitled to know that the bid is weak, only that it could be weak. A takeout double looks more normal on the South hand whatever the strength of the opener, after which North is likely to end up playing in 3NT, with a better chance of making it. I can't see that the choice of action by South is affected by the agreed minimum strength of the opening bid, so I would allow the score to stand, and make sure EW know about the requirements of proper disclosure.
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#8 User is offline   weejonnie 

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Posted 2019-October-10, 06:56

I agree with VixTD. Not a psychic call. EW need to ensure that their convention card (EBU20b) is completed noting that light 3rd in hand openings are possible. Would be hard for a TD to do other than draw them to that fact (especially if they don't have a CC - which can happen in clubs.)
No matter how well you know the laws, there is always something that you'll forget. That is why we have a book.
Get the facts. No matter what people say, get the facts from both sides BEFORE you make a ruling or leave the table.
Remember - just because a TD is called for one possible infraction, it does not mean that there are no others.
In a judgement case - always refer to other TDs and discuss the situation until they agree your decision is correct.
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