[Echognome]

I abstain as we run out on a lot more shapes than mentioned. It reminds me of the earlier thread about opponents doubling our NT. (Granted after a 14-16 NT this is less likely.)

[whereagles]

"Free" said:

Unless mentioned otherwise, 1NT is standard 15-17.

This particular problem referred to a 14-16 NT. (See tread description.)

"Free" said:

don't know why you wanted to get me in the first place

I don't want to "get" anyone. I just wanted to defend my point of view. But again you're right.. why should I bother?

"Free" said:

When the history of the hand is posted, I can already see what's going to happen:
- either you were right and you'll feel victorious (but then my partner will probably bid again and we'll find the same contract)
- your judgement really failed you, but you'll play great and note only -1100, and you'll be convinced that your bid will win in the long run so no harm done

Speak for yourself, Fredrick. I would never do such a stupid thing as claiming post-mortem victories or finding sorrow excuses for losses.

[luke warm]

inquiry, on May 17 2005, 07:46 AM, said:

If you pass, your parnter's double will be for takeout, so if his four card major is spades, you may have just missed the 2♠X opportunity. So pass is bad.

i agree the hand is max with its 6 controls.. however, klinger (unless i'm mistaken, i'll check when i get home) plays double by partner as penalty.. there are other ways to invite and bid game

[inquiry]

luke warm, on May 17 2005, 11:55 AM, said:

inquiry, on May 17 2005, 07:46 AM, said:

If you pass, your parnter's double will be for takeout, so if his four card major is spades, you may have just missed the 2♠X opportunity. So pass is bad.

i agree the hand is max with its 6 controls.. however, klinger (unless i'm mistaken, i'll check when i get home) plays double by partner as penalty.. there are other ways to invite and bid game

Oh, I guess I should change the way I play then..... :-)

Ben

[luke warm]

i didn't say or imply that... everyone has authorities in bridge... yours (even if it's you yourself) evidently prefers double in that situation for takeout... mine for penalties... sometimes one way works out, sometimes the other

[scoob]

ok now the fun part:

Scoring: IMP

---

comments in general are welcome, but i'm particularly interested in North's 2♠ and South's Pass at this point - where could we.. (er, i mean they ) went wrong

[joker_gib]

And what is the 2♣ bid !?!?

[whereagles]

Transfer to diamonds, what else?

[joker_gib]

whereagles, on May 18 2005, 09:02 AM, said:

Transfer to diamonds, what else?

LOL

[luke warm]

2♣ is stayman that passes any rebid... garbage... as for where you went wrong, i think south should bid something... 2nt?

[cherdano]

luke warm, on May 18 2005, 03:28 PM, said:

2♣ is stayman that passes any rebid... garbage... as for where you went wrong, i think south should bid something... 2nt?

Yes, but why do you want to play in a 4-3 fit with a completlely balanced hand?

Arend

[joker_gib]

luke warm, on May 18 2005, 09:28 AM, said:

2♣ is stayman that passes any rebid... garbage...

To play in 3-3 fit in a major ! Not my style, I prefer pass and eventually play in ♦ if doubled !

Alain

[mikestar]

On the question of doubles, Ben follows Robson-Segal: "all doubles are for takeout until we find our fit." (With the implied "all doubles after we find our fit are for penalty.") This allows the partnership a very flexible way of handling intervention, while minimizing the number of special cases.

For the hand in question, opener doubles. If next hand passes, partner bids 2N lebensohl; if next hand redoubles, partner bid 3D (here it must be garbage stayman and it is well to show the diamonds. Worst that happens is they get us for 200 when they are cold for 4S.

[Free]

scoob, on May 18 2005, 02:43 PM, said:

ok now the fun part:

Scoring: IMP

---

comments in general are welcome, but i'm particularly interested in North's 2♠ and South's Pass at this point - where could we.. (er, i mean they ) went wrong

South should bid with such a hand, partner bids in front of the NT opener...

About the garbage stayman: ugly hand to do it imo. Ok, you might find a 4-3 M fit and have a ruff because of the 'short' ♣s, but that's it... Dunno why he (er, i mean you ) bid 2♣ V vs NV, but it worked.

[luke warm]

joker_gib, on May 18 2005, 08:43 AM, said:

luke warm, on May 18 2005, 09:28 AM, said:

2♣ is stayman that passes any rebid... garbage...

To play in 3-3 fit in a major ! Not my style, I prefer pass and eventually play in ♦ if doubled !

Alain

how can you play in a 3/3? it's still stayman, partner will bid a 4 card major.. so you're in a 4/3, maybe a 5/3 or 5/2 if diamonds

arend said:

Yes, but why do you want to play in a 4-3 fit with a completlely balanced hand?

with responder's hand, i don't think i want to leave opener in 1nt... anyway, i'm not defending 2♣, merely explaining it the best i can

[Al_U_Card]

lets see, dbl shows 4S cards, 2NT shows a 2 suiter (responder bids his first 3+ card suit up the line) and 3 of anything shows a good 5 or even a 6 card suit. (And a strong tolerance for bad results at this vulnerability.)

[joker_gib]

luke warm, on May 18 2005, 10:43 AM, said:

joker_gib, on May 18 2005, 08:43 AM, said:

luke warm, on May 18 2005, 09:28 AM, said:

2♣ is stayman that passes any rebid... garbage...

To play in 3-3 fit in a major ! Not my style, I prefer pass and eventually play in ♦ if doubled !

Alain

how can you play in a 3/3? it's still stayman, partner will bid a 4 card major.. so you're in a 4/3, maybe a 5/3 or 5/2 if diamonds

Yes, Jimmy, you are right for 4-3 fit ! Was sleeping but I still prefer to pass with no ruffing values and will play in ♦ 5-2+ if doubled

Alain