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Bid 7NT over intervention

#1 User is offline   Dinarius 

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Posted 2019-August-20, 07:14

What do you bid now as North?

Is 3 over 3 always forcing for you?

Would 4NT be simply asking for Aces? (If so, when you hear three Aces from Partner, assuming she is guaranteeing a doubleton , you can now count 13 tricks.)

Thanks.

D.


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#2 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2019-August-20, 07:27

View PostDinarius, on 2019-August-20, 07:14, said:

What do you bid now as North?

3 is forcing, yes, but what is wrong with the simple 4 followed by 4NT?
(-: Zel :-)
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#3 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2019-August-20, 09:24

View PostZelandakh, on 2019-August-20, 07:27, said:

3 is forcing, yes, but what is wrong with the simple 4 followed by 4NT?

Or 3 if you play Rubensohl.
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#4 User is offline   HardVector 

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Posted 2019-August-20, 09:32

I always play that Texas is still on up to a 3d bid. That's because the 2 Texas bids are still either a cuebid or a jump. Bidding 4h(Texas) followed by 4n makes this hand easy.
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#5 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2019-August-20, 10:58

3 (or 4 if you play that) followed by 4N.
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#6 User is offline   Dinarius 

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Posted 2019-August-20, 11:38

Just curious...

If West’s bid was 3❤️, do any of you play Stolen Bids in this auction and Double to show transfer to ♠️?

D.
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#7 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2019-August-21, 00:49

1N. (3D) 4D should, IMO, be both majors, forcing, which means Texas is off. A good rule is that Texas is a jump, and 4D is a cue, not a jump. Texas on over 3C and lower.


Here 3S is 100% forcing. Howeve, partner will bid 3N and now 4N is quantitative. The answer is to use 5C as super-Ferber: anytime 4N would be quantitative, a jump to 5C is ace asking. Not, obviously, if we’ve been bidding clubs, but then 4C is forcing, so we make that call,first.
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#8 User is offline   heart76 

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Posted 2019-August-21, 00:59

If 4C is still Gerber in your agreements, than Gerber be.
Otherwise X is takeout for the majors, P obviously bids H or NT. Over H, 4S is forcing (could have bid it instead of X). Over 3NT, 4C is Gerber.
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#9 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2019-August-21, 01:12

Hi,

3S, followed by 4D over openers 3NT (this should be an Auto Splinter).
And yes, 3S is forcing, new suits at the 3 Level are forcing.

With Kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#10 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2019-August-21, 02:18

View Postmikeh, on 2019-August-21, 00:49, said:

1N. (3D) 4D should, IMO, be both majors, forcing, which means Texas is off. A good rule is that Texas is a jump, and 4D is a cue, not a jump. Texas on over 3C and lower.

How do you play 3 followed by 4 then Mike? To me that should be a one-suited slam try in spades if not playing Texas but I am guessing that is not part of your approach. I also think that keeping Texas on up to 3 (rather than 3) is the simplest way for most pairs and not significantly worse than 4/$ being a cue. Over 3 I assume most expert pairs use some form of switch or transfers but that is probably inadvisable for social players.
(-: Zel :-)
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#11 User is online   apollo1201 

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Posted 2019-August-21, 04:23

View Postheart76, on 2019-August-21, 00:59, said:

Otherwise X is takeout for the majors, P obviously bids H or NT.

Or passes and we proudly lead SA...
3S forcing followed by eg 4NT over 4S, or 4D over 3NT then 4NT over 4M should allow us to force partner bidding then ask for aces and conclude. Without the risk of letting us play in a silly contract.
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#12 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2019-August-21, 05:18

View PostZelandakh, on 2019-August-21, 02:18, said:

How do you play 3 followed by 4 then Mike? To me that should be a one-suited slam try in spades if not playing Texas but I am guessing that is not part of your approach. I also think that keeping Texas on up to 3 (rather than 3) is the simplest way for most pairs and not significantly worse than 4/$ being a cue. Over 3 I assume most expert pairs use some form of switch or transfers but that is probably inadvisable for social players.

In real life, I play that 3H is spades, invitational or better, and 3S is hearts, gf. However, I was answering based on the notion that we were playing more or less standard methods. 4D would be both majors anyway.
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#13 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2019-August-21, 06:59

View Postmikeh, on 2019-August-21, 05:18, said:

In real life, I play that 3H is spades, invitational or better, and 3S is hearts, gf. However, I was answering based on the notion that we were playing more or less standard methods. 4D would be both majors anyway.

Yes, the switch is of course good here too and you were right to keep it out of the conversation. I guess the same question applies to the auctions 1NT - (3) - 3; 3 - 4 and 1NT - (3) - 3; 3NT - 4. As 1NT - (3) - 4 is both majors, how do you play these?
(-: Zel :-)
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#14 User is offline   chasetb 

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Posted 2019-August-31, 00:17

View PostHardVector, on 2019-August-20, 09:32, said:

I always play that Texas is still on up to a 3d bid. That's because the 2 Texas bids are still either a cuebid or a jump. Bidding 4h(Texas) followed by 4n makes this hand easy.

I agree with this, except if an interfering 3 bid is natural, than 4 is a transfer to Spades.
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#15 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2019-September-06, 10:52

The question is if you still play Texas transfers over interference?

If you do, this hand is easy.

1 NT - (3 ) - 4
4 - ( P ) - 4 NT (1430)
5 - ( P ) - 7 NT

as 5 must show 3 keys because there aren't enough points left if opener has zero to bid 1 NT.

If you don't, then you must start with 3 which should be absolutely forcing. You'll need follow up agreements on the bidding that follows after 3 , specifically what rebid by responder is the key card ask for .
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#16 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2019-September-06, 12:29

View Postrmnka447, on 2019-September-06, 10:52, said:

The question is if you still play Texas transfers over interference?

If you do, this hand is easy.

1 NT - (3 ) - 4
4 - ( P ) - 4 NT (1430)
5 - ( P ) - 7 NT

as 5 must show 3 keys because there aren't enough points left if opener has zero to bid 1 NT.

If you don't, then you must start with 3 which should be absolutely forcing. You'll need follow up agreements on the bidding that follows after 3 , specifically what rebid by responder is the key card ask for .

It is unwise to play texas over any interference higher than 3C.

With a major 2-suiter and a 3D overcall, one has to have 4D available to force opener to choose a major, which one may be passing or taking further, slam-oriented, action.

To see why, think of the alternatives with a big 2-suiter.

One can double, if one plays this as negative, which is a popular use. However, opener is allowed to pass, and may not be able to bid a major anyway, lacking 4. He may bid 3N, and over that 4M by advancer is non-forcing, and while 4D insists on a major, opener might not be bidding 3N...he may be passing the double (or bidding 4C over the double, and now is 4D majors or a cuebid in support?).

So a negative double runs a terrible downside risk when we have slam ambitions, or even simply game, where we have extra shape, and hence offence and no defence. Do we want to be on lead against 3D x'd with say KJxxxx QJxxxx void x?

Bid 3M? Yes, this is forcing, but what next? Maybe we have a 5-4 fit in the other major but opener will raise us with any 3 card support, and now we can't get to the better fit.

Or opener bids 3N...so now if we started with 3S, our 4H is not forcing...it is pass or correct (playing it forcing simply transposes the problem, since now we can't stop in 4H when it is right).

The solution is easy, and virtually cost-free: play 4D as both majors. I use switch for 3H/3S, but that is for one-suiters.

The only 'cost' is that if one doesn't use switch, responder has to bid his major at the 3-level (forcing) or the 4-level (to play), and now the lead comes through opener. That can cost, but in real life doesn't cost often. Responder is often short in diamonds, or opener has the Ace, or overcaller has AK, etc. It is relatively rare that having the lead through opener costs, and if that is your worry, play switch, where responder's 3H is spades, invite or better, and 3S is hearts, forcing.

With that in place, there is little need for texas. All one loses is the ability to show a mild slam try...with no slam interest, we are always just bidding game no matter our methods, and with strong slam interest, we can afford the 5-level.
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#17 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2019-September-06, 14:31

View Postmikeh, on 2019-September-06, 12:29, said:

It is unwise to play texas over any interference higher than 3C.
................

Thanks Mike, makes a lot of sense as almost always.
What would you suggest as the upper limit of interference for playing Rubensohl (next step transfers over responder's bid from 2NT to 3S) ?
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#18 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2019-September-07, 18:53

View Postmikeh, on 2019-September-06, 12:29, said:

It is unwise to play texas over any interference higher than 3C.

….


As always, there's lots of good stuff in your replies.

Frankly, I don't play Texas over any interference, but some people do. The auction I included was for those who still play Texas on.

The more interesting auctions begin with 3 M. This bid should be forcing and as you say show 5+ cards in the suit.

In this auction, I think opener clearly bids 3 NT with a doubleton and A10xx, a likely double stopper.

So what does responder bid next? I think 4 stands out. I would interpret 4 as slam interest in even though opener has denied 3+ card support. If responder was simply interested in a game, 4 could be bid over 3 NT. While opener can infer that responder is probably short in , using 4 as a splinter is too restrictive. If it is a splinter, then what do you do with AKQxxxxx - xx KQx?

Over 4 , I think opener cooperates with responder's slam try by cueing 4 . Opener has already shown lack of support for , so the slam try must be based on a pretty good suit and some other assets. Given not much worry about , opener's hand is a terrific holding with 1st round controls in all the side suits and 4 sure cover cards. So 4 says "Yes. I'm interested in slam and here's a control."

I could envision this auction occurring:

1 NT - (3 ) - 3
3 NT - ( P ) - 4
4 - ( P ) - 4 NT (1430)
5 - ( P ) - 7 NT


With my favorite partner who I still play old fashioned As first cueing with, we'd be able to bid the slam in the following manner:

1 NT - (3 ) - 3
3 NT - ( P ) - 4
4 - ( P ) - 4 NT (continued slam interest NOT RKCB)( 4 = A)
5 - ( P ) - 5 (2nd round control, no 1st in ) (5 = A)
6 - ( P ) - 7 NT (6 = A)
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#19 User is offline   Trinidad 

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Posted 2019-September-16, 07:38

View Postmikeh, on 2019-September-06, 12:29, said:

It is unwise to play texas over any interference higher than 3C.

I think that a lot of people play some kind of "-sohl" after interference of 2 and lower (since 2NT is available), and something else after 2NT or higher. For the sake of simplicity, I think it is handy to agree that Texas is on when "-sohl" applies. At least I find it easier to remember, which means that I don't get problems (when partner bids 4).

Rik
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