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What is this hand worth

#1 User is offline   mr1303_2 

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Posted 2019-August-15, 01:03



You have the above on the following auction. This was on "Just play bridge" mode, so don't worry about IMPs or MPs, but assume that you don't definitely have the best hand here.

1) What do you bid here? 3C would be competitive, 2NT would suggest more stoppers than you have, double would suggest more spades than you have. Could 3H be too much against live opponents?

2) If you bid 3H here, partner bids 3S. This is more encouraging than 4C, but could be anything between "I can't bid 3NT, but you may be able to?" to 4S and a decent hand, to an advanced cue bid in a slam try. What now? Have you had enough?

Suffice to say I screwed this one up.
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#2 User is offline   apollo1201 

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Posted 2019-August-15, 02:36

Usually, when opps have bid 2 suits, the cue is affirmative and says I stop this one. Given all I have, and partner having seen we are red before venturing at the 2-level, 3D is the min we can do.

I believe W forced a reply with a subminimal hand but long suit maybe KJTxxx and out. I need to tell partner we own the hand before W blasts 4H. Who knows, if W only bids 3H or passes (if he had just taken advantage of the vuln and made a 1H call with just KJxx), maybe partner will bid 3NT.

On the auction you give, I fear sth like KQxx xx x AJxxxx or maybe a bit more but we would probably be losing the first 3 tricks or 2H plus a failed S finesse. 4C would be enough but partner is welcome to bid on with extra shape or strength. After all, I did say I had sth nice for partner.
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#3 User is offline   FelicityR 

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Posted 2019-August-15, 05:13

3 here too. Tell partner you have a good raise to at least 4 with 3NT not out of the equation on the bidding. Partner could well be holding a stopper and enough in s to warrant 3NT. Ask yourself why partner never doubled here, and the reason could be he is 3226 shape with AJxxxx. I'd rather be in 3NT as opposed to 4 or 5 here so it's stupid to bypass 3NT at this stage.
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#4 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2019-August-15, 08:25

3 for me, as when the opps have bid 2 suits, you cue bid the one you stop when interested in 3NT.
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#5 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2019-August-15, 20:23

It will help you enormously if you read how each bid will be interpreted by your robot partner. You will normally wince at how bad these expectations are but they are what you have been stuck with.
even with a human partner I would not consider the 1d bid to be a suit unless the opps were playing a 2+ club opener. That means 3d would still be played as natural (what would you do with 984 742 KQJTxxx void or similar) over a 1d opening bid? The practical bid is 3h asking for a heart stop. We already are just short of 100% sure there is no long spade suit so the mere presence of a heart stop
should give us reasonable play for 3n opposite our partners unfavorable 2c bid. It is a robot so don't go throwing too much money away at your nearby casino betting that partner has what you might expect for the 2c bid:)))
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#6 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2019-August-16, 13:51

View Postgszes, on 2019-August-15, 20:23, said:

It will help you enormously if you read how each bid will be interpreted by your robot partner. You will normally wince at how bad these expectations are but they are what you have been stuck with.
even with a human partner I would not consider the 1d bid to be a suit unless the opps were playing a 2+ club opener. That means 3d would still be played as natural (what would you do with 984 742 KQJTxxx void or similar) over a 1d opening bid? The practical bid is 3h asking for a heart stop. We already are just short of 100% sure there is no long spade suit so the mere presence of a heart stop
should give us reasonable play for 3n opposite our partners unfavorable 2c bid. It is a robot so don't go throwing too much money away at your nearby casino betting that partner has what you might expect for the 2c bid:)))

robot bridge is, by definition, unworthy of being in the 'interesting bridge hands' forum. Look at how you had to answer the OP: by stating that it is not only useless but actually counterproductive to make a normal call.

By the way, I am not at all sure that 3D here shows a diamond stop and asks for a heart stop. The usual rule, that when the opps are bidding 2 suits, we bid the one we stop, may not apply here, because we are a passed hand, and we have to be able to suggest a good raise without necessarily saying that we looking for 3N. We need one of the two cuebids to show the good raise, and requiring that we hold a red suit stopper in order to cuebid makes little sense to me.

Say I held AQx xx xxx KQxxx: with partner coming in red, and with the vulnerability being what it is, I have to do more than 3C, yet if 3R shows a stopper, what can I do?

In this sort of situation, I think that one has to be more flexible. I would play 3D here as simply a maximum raise, silent about diamond stoppers, and 3H as a maximum raise with a heart stopper. If partner has interest in 3N, he can bid 3H over 3D to show that stopper, and allow us to bid 3N with a diamond stop.

Note that if we flip the cuebids, it doesn't work: if we play 3D as a stopper, and 3H as ambiguous, but denying a diamond stop, partner has no way to ask below 3N (arguably 3S could be an ask, because at a high level of inference, advancer should deny 4 spades by bidding 3H....a 3S bid HAS to be based on values to bid to 4C, and should only be 4 or a very weak 5 card suit, since we are potentially driving to the 4-level in clubs, so have a good hand, yet passed over 1D. However, I would not try that with many partners).

So I have contradicted myself: if presented as a bidding problem, the hand has interest. But if presented as a 'how to bid this at a form of the game that bears no resemblance to bridge' it lacks any interest, at least to me.
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
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