[FelicityR]

It's bad enough having the TD being called to your table, but it was a bit more disconcerting when he suggested a few hours later (even though he is an acquaintance and occasionally plays rubber bridge at my house) that we need to have a "little chat about this over a coffee, Felicity."

There had a few complaints at the club (in the UK) about the methods my partner and I use now that we are playing regularly with the idea of playing in tournaments again, something I haven't done for years.

Ours is a small club where many of the players are elderly, and most still play 4M Acol. We play a basic 2/1 system with a range of conventions, including now Walsh and Transfer Walsh. Everything is alerted. But that doesn't satisfy the purists. This is the Matchpoint hand yesterday that was the straw that broke the camel's back, it seems.

---

West who can be a bit grumpy at the best of times was incandescent with rage that he's missed out on a vulnerable ♥ game, and that we made 2♠X after his partner passed and led a ♦. To keep the peace, both my partner and myself suggested to the TD (as ours is a friendly club generally) to adjust the score to 4♥ made by E/W - which turned out to be a bottom score as no-one else had bid it. It's only a game, after all, I mused, not life and death.

But the matter wasn't allowed to rest there. I can't comment too much at this juncture (as it has been referred to the club committee), but a number of players want my partner and myself to "tone down" our system because it is confusing to some players. This is what the TD suggested over 'our chat over coffee'. I'm agreeable to this, only to keep the peace, but it leaves my partner and myself in a bit of a dilemma as we can't practice our system at the table.

What are your thoughts, and as always thank you for your replies.

[glen]

Did West notice and ask about the alert?

[pescetom]

I fail to see anything amiss except in the bidding of west. Did opponents ask for an explanation of the alert? What was their complaint? Why did the TD not rule that there was no infraction and result stands?

[FelicityR]

 glen, on 2019-August-08, 06:45, said:

Did West notice and ask about the alert?

West did ask me about the alert; I gave him the correct explanation; and then he thought for a while before bidding 1NT.

[FelicityR]

 pescetom, on 2019-August-08, 06:54, said:

I fail to see anything amiss except in the bidding of west. Did opponents ask for an explanation of the alert? What was their complaint? Why did the TD not rule that there was no infraction and result stands?

West's complaint was that our 'unusual methods' hadn't allowed him to bid his hand naturally. The gist of it goes that he would have doubled a natural 1♠ bid by my partner, but because we were using Transfer Walsh he wasn't sure his partner would understand a double of the 'transfer' 1♥.

[Cyberyeti]

We once had a system banned at one club without ever playing it there, but what we were playing was much more obscure than what you are (although still legal at general licence).

Unfortunately, from the club's point of view, if a load of people leave because they don't find it fun to play against you, the club suffers more than if you do, even though you're in the right.

You can point out that many more people in the world play what you do than what they do, but not sure it will help.

I've played in some fairly sleepy clubs, and anything more than simple Acol or 5M standard American ish methods tend to confuse, you might find the odd precision pair once in a blue moon.

The club I occasionally play at now has a wide variety of systems played despite a fairly old clientele. Is there no better club in the vicinity ?

[TMorris]

I think you need to find another club if possible.

[pescetom]

 FelicityR, on 2019-August-08, 07:07, said:

West's complaint was that our 'unusual methods' hadn't allowed him to bid his hand naturally. The gist of it goes that he would have doubled a natural 1♠ bid by my partner, but because we were using Transfer Walsh he wasn't sure his partner would understand a double of the 'transfer' 1♥.

So he gave partner some hints (fortunately ignored) with hesitation 1nt and then double. I don't see that he has anything to complain about. It shouldn't take them long to figure out some simple defence such as double shows hearts, spades is takeout, the rest including 2C is natural. Maybe the TD could suggest that to them over a coffee.

[hrothgar]

There will always be a fundamental tension when untalented individuals chose to

1. Compete in a game of skill
2. Expect that they have some right to win said event

[Tramticket]

Hi Felicity

Where is the club? City or somewhere more remote?

Does the club state a policy on systems? (level 4? level 2?)

Does everyone else play very basic systems? Or do a few play a for example a Multi / Canape / Strong Club systems?

Is the club a long-established club, or one that has evolved more recently from a teaching club?


Where I live / work, I find that there are a variety of clubs. At the more serious clubs, you can expect to find at least a few players playing something exotic, but there are some clubs (particularly the day-time ones), where players were new to the game in later life and cannot adapt to anything out of their comfort zone.

The best advice, of course, is to find a better club. But this may not be a simple option, depending where you live.

[heart76]

Don't teach an old dog new tricks, told me my first partner at my club, an elderly, very pleasant man.
Do everyone a favor, yourself being at the top of the list, find a better training place for your pair. The sweet talk you got from the TD is ridiculous (and he should have refused to rule). Let the club ban what they want officially, or there is no point standing.
I have a lot of sympathy for these people, I really do, but what can one else do?

[pescetom]

 heart76, on 2019-August-08, 08:50, said:

Don't teach an old dog new tricks, told me my first partner at my club, an elderly, very pleasant man.

Being elderly makes it harder to learn new tricks, but not impossible. Those who don't want to try have no right to complain, as hrothgar said.

I sympathise with Felicity because I went through a similar situation in my club, where my use of 2/1 Game Force (gasp) and attempts to actually follow the laws encountered hostility from all concerned. But I stuck to my guns and swung others around to my way of thinking, now it is a better place. I would go to the Club Committee, walk them through my T-Walsh system notes and suggest some defences, but defend my right to play bridge.

I don't know what powers to prohibit methods the club has in EBU: over here they can do what they want for club tournaments, but it is the RA that decides for all higher level competition including local editions of national simultaneous tournaments. If things are similar and the club wants to flex its muscles then maybe Felicity could compromise and play the wilder stuff during the weekly Simultaneous only.

[glen]

Your opponents feel that they are at a disadvantage, as even though you alert and explain the bids, they don’t have a partnership agreement on how to bid over them. For Transfer Walsh you could prepare two laminated index cards with a simple defense, stating:

Responder is making a transfer to own suit, much like transfers over notrump openings. Over Transfer:

Double = Would have doubled if responder had bid own suit
1 of responder’s suit = natural overcall, not forcing
Rest as if responder had bid own suit

Hand the cards to the opponents when you alert Transfer Walsh.

[akwoo]

If you want your club to survive, you'll have to play different methods.

(I know that, if I wanted to play Precision (and found a partner to do so) at my local club, there would no longer be a local club within 2 or 3 months. Most of the players would quit.)

[mikeh]

Felicity. I’m not going to comment on your club issues, but want to suggest that bbo is an excellent place to practice. Ideally you have reasonably competent friends who can play with/against you but, even if not, you may be able to develop some. I have just resumed playing with my regular partner of 20 years ago, and we live in different cities. We practice bidding at a partnership bidding table at bbo. It’s not ideal, because you want decent opps for the competitive auctions, but it’s a good start. We’ll no doubt play some practice matches in due course.

[helene_t]

When in Rome do what the Romans do.

I think you will have to agree to play "natural". Presumably they won't have problem with strong NT, and most could live with 3-card minors, checkback and weak 2-openings. Purely constructive methods such as spiral scan and Xclusion may be OK.

Accept the invite to have a chat with the TD. Ask him if he thinks people would be OK with you playing 2/1 as long as you play everything in the first round (other than slam conventions and notrump structure) as natural. He may have an opinion about the koshernes of Rusinov leads and WJS. If he insists that you play 4-card majors then tell him politely that it is best for both parties if you leave the club.

Legally, you are in your right of course. Presumably the club regulations are based on level 4, if only because that presumably applies implicitly if nothing is stated. In theory, you could suggest that they change to level 2 or 3 to get rid of T-Walsh, but there are serious drawbacks of this. I suppose you don't really care to convert the systemophobics to the modern, multicultural gospel.

Try to find a like-minded pair to practice with on BBO or in real life. You don't gain much serious experience playing against LOLs and LOGs who have misunderstandings all the time. You want to practice against pairs that have adequate defense against your methods.

[msjennifer]

[quote name='FelicityR' timestamp='1565269247' post='979091']
West did ask me about the alert; I gave him the correct explanation; and then he thought for a while before bidding 1NT.
[/quot
If the club does not permit artificial bids and yet one wishes to play there one should avoid artificial bids and systems.The best way for practising is to play with your partner at BBO.The local clubs are where 60+ Ladies and Gentlemen come to spend an hour or two playing Rubber Bridge.Why disturb their old age entertainment.In my personal opinion the director should have awarded average plus to either pair.(I do not know how they can in Rubber Bridge).Allowing a score of 4H made just does not make sense.The LHO gentleman who bid 1NT after enquiring about the alert could have bid 2H after it went 2C-P-P.It would have been clear enough for his partner.Perhaps it did not strike .The director after making score adjustments could have explained which systems, bids and conventions are allowed in that club.In a lighter vein, LHO could have bid one SPADE to show heart suit.Had you bid 1S ,a natural bid, he would have had to bid TWO hearts .He should thank you for enabling him to show hearts at 1level.

[FelicityR]

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for all your replies.

I think the problem lies in that ours is a non-affiliated EBU club, and that I live in a rural location and the nearest EBU club is over 20 miles away. I do not drive, my regular partner has night vision problems (so feels not confident driving in the evening) and public transport is non existent in the evening. We have visited a couple of other clubs during the day but found the standard in the afternoon sessions very mediocre - kitchen level bridge.

As for practising on BBO as kindly suggested by mikeh, well that's an option but computer bridge is completely different to actual tournament bridge, as I am sure he knows. Sitting down with real opponents, with our convention cards, with our bidding boxes, at real tables, and having the 'buzz' (for want of a better word) of being part of a tournament is where we want to be.

However, I have spoken to my partner about practicing on BBO and he is agreeable to this - he's never played computer bridge ever - so at least we can make some progress on both bidding practice and playing against more competent opposition. It's a start.

As for what happens next at the club, well I'm going to pre-empt that with a letter to the committee first thing in the morning. It's not going to be too difficult switching between a simple Acol 4M/weak NT system with few conventions as most play at the club (so they don't feel out of their comfort zone) and playing a strong NT 2/1 system online and in competitions. Even though we will be limited practising our bidding in the club, there's still the card play and that's just as important.

And again, thank you for your comments and suggestions.

[pescetom]

 glen, on 2019-August-08, 14:44, said:

For Transfer Walsh you could prepare two laminated index cards with a simple defense, stating:

Responder is making a transfer to own suit, much like transfers over notrump openings. Over Transfer:

Double = Would have doubled if responder had bid own suit
1 of responder’s suit = natural overcall, not forcing
Rest as if responder had bid own suit

Hand the cards to the opponents when you alert Transfer Walsh.

A simple defence doesn't have to be that advantageous to the opponents

Otherwise it seems a neat idea, although not strictly legal (you shouldn't be explaining unless they asked, and they can't agree or disagree to play a certain defence during the auction).

[IGoHomeNow]

This kind of nonsense is why clubs have novice games (and here in the US, other restricted Master point games) Having said this, I do believe those who play an artificial system that is surely outside the knowledge of most opponents should provide a sound suggested defense As for the director....I sympathize with the desire to placate the sheep, who might choose to go away, but it just seems wrong to impose special rules for spoiled children. One reason people use these systems is to gain advantage. Nothing at all wrong with that. This is a competition!