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Diamond Geezer

#1 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2019-July-11, 01:13



IMPs (Butler Pairs)
System: Weak NT, 4-card majors (i,e, 1 promised 4+).

Partner will have invitational+ with diamond support or any strong hand without a clear bid.

Please comment if it makes a difference to your bid if 4 at this point is (a) Minorwood, (b) Natural and forcing.

[If you don't like our use of the 2 cue-bid, I am happy to hear other suggestions].
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#2 User is online   nige1 

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Posted 2019-July-11, 01:46

Tramticket 'IMPs (Butler Pairs). System: Weak NT, 4-card majors (i,e, 1 promised 4+).Partner will have invitational+ with diamond support or any strong hand without a clear bid. Please comment if it makes a difference to your bid if 4 at this point is (a) Minorwood, (b) Natural and forcing. [If you don't like our use of the 2 cue-bid, I am happy to hear other suggestions]'
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Your bid depends on your agreements. Perhaps,, here ...
-- 2/3/3 = ART STOP for notrump (or CUE, if you later go above 3N).
-- 2N = N/F. With stop.
-- 3 = N/F. 5+ s.
-- 3N = NAT S/O.
-- 4 = RKC?
-- 3/4/4 = SPL (void).

With understandings like these, 3 (showing a stop) seems most descriptive.
Because, If partner might just have a good hand, then you have too few controls to commit to contracts beyond 3N,
For example, with A Q x x x A x x x J x x x, partner might try 3NT.

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#3 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2019-July-11, 01:57

I too would bid 3H showing a stop, as the least of all evils. RKCB here would be 4C for us, but we'll already be lucky to make game here.
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#4 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2019-July-11, 03:56

We play 2 atill inverted but not GF and may contain 4 spades, so 2 tends to be a 3 card raise without a heart stop (we play 2N nat) or a GF hand with 3 diamonds.
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Posted 2019-July-11, 11:33

View Postnige1, on 2019-July-11, 01:46, said:

Your bid depends on your agreements. Perhaps,, here ...
-- 2/3/3 = ART STOP for notrump (or CUE, if you later go past 3N).
-- 2N = N/F. With stop.
-- 3 = N/F. 5+ s.
-- 4 = RKC?
-- 3/4/4 = SPL (void).

With understandings like these, 3 (showing a stop) seems most descriptive.


I'm not sure about bidding 3H to show a heart stop - we would tend to bid NT with a stop and suitable shape (less fussy about stops in the other suits). I guess that 3H for us would show extra strength WITHOUT a stop. Maybe I should bid an off-shape 3NT, since I agree with you that the hand lacks controls to go past 3NT.
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Posted 2019-July-11, 11:38

View PostCyberyeti, on 2019-July-11, 03:56, said:

We play 2 atill inverted but not GF and may contain 4 spades, so 2 tends to be a 3 card raise without a heart stop (we play 2N nat) or a GF hand with 3 diamonds.


This would probably work well here as partner's 2H would not suggest diamond support. Partner did hold a heart stop (AXX), but with an 18-count, partner would bid 2H as a general force.

But I think that it is more usual for inverted minors to be off in competitive auctions.
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#7 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2019-July-11, 12:09

View PostTramticket, on 2019-July-11, 11:38, said:

This would probably work well here as partner's 2H would not suggest diamond support. Partner did hold a heart stop (AXX), but with an 18-count, partner would bid 2H as a general force.

But I think that it is more usual for inverted minors to be off in competitive auctions.


I know it's more usual, which is why I mentioned the method, I'd be happy with either 2N or 3 over 2 with a slight preference for 3, now partner can do various things, but I think you're well placed and if partner has AKx, xxx, xxx, KJxx you don't get too high
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#8 User is offline   HardVector 

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Posted 2019-July-11, 20:31

I'd bid 3n. I would assume that 3h would ASK for a stop.
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#9 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2019-July-12, 14:47

View PostHardVector, on 2019-July-11, 20:31, said:

I would assume that 3h would ASK for a stop.

So would GIB, I think, which confused me as a beginner.
Maybe some US player could enlighten on the origin and diffusion of this convention.
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