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Renting Advances Robots not a fair playing field

#1 User is offline   lindamorey 

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Posted 2019-July-08, 04:44

Does it seem a bit unfair and against the spirit of ACBL that one is able to rent advanced robots for play? I would like to think when we are playing with robots, everyone is on a level playing field.
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#2 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2019-July-08, 06:25

My understanding is that all people playing in an ACBL accredited tournament are using the same level of robots.
Alderaan delenda est
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#3 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2019-July-08, 07:15

Players in ACBL Robot tournaments all use the same type of robot. IIRC, the general rule is that in free tournaments (no entry fee), everybody gets basic bots, in paid tournaments you get advanced bots.

This does not apply to general play where you can rent either a basic bot or and advanced bot.
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#4 User is offline   lindamorey 

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Posted 2019-July-08, 08:16

View Postjohnu, on 2019-July-08, 07:15, said:

Players in ACBL Robot tournaments all use the same type of robot. IIRC, the general rule is that in free tournaments (no entry fee), everybody gets basic bots, in paid tournaments you get advanced bots.

This does not apply to general play where you can rent either a basic bot or and advanced bot.


Thanks for clearing this up!
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#5 User is offline   thepossum 

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Posted 2019-July-10, 19:00

It raises an interesting question for the non-tournament use. I know non-tournament hands dont mean that much but I have occasionally noticed differences in play on regular IMP casual play that I wondered if they were down to Advanced vs Basic bots - eg with seemingly identical auctions and play by declarer, having different leads or plays from time to time. I havent been able to pin it down though

If we do compare against people in regular IMP play with different bots it then begs the question whether partnering a basic bot against two basic bots is better or worse than partnering an advanced bot against two advanced bots :)
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#6 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2019-July-11, 04:59

View Postthepossum, on 2019-July-10, 19:00, said:

It raises an interesting question for the non-tournament use. I know non-tournament hands dont mean that much but I have occasionally noticed differences in play on regular IMP casual play that I wondered if they were down to Advanced vs Basic bots - eg with seemingly identical auctions and play by declarer, having different leads or plays from time to time. I havent been able to pin it down though

If we do compare against people in regular IMP play with different bots it then begs the question whether partnering a basic bot against two basic bots is better or worse than partnering an advanced bot against two advanced bots :)


On average, basic bots make more completely incomprehensible bidding and play mistakes than advanced bots, as well as less well "thought out" mistakes and evaluations that may or may not result in a bad result. To the extent that ridiculous results don't help you practice, or learn anything about bridge, than advanced bots will let you have more reasonable results.
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#7 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2019-July-11, 05:38

View Postthepossum, on 2019-July-10, 19:00, said:

If we do compare against people in regular IMP play with different bots it then begs the question whether partnering a basic bot against two basic bots is better or worse than partnering an advanced bot against two advanced bots :)


I rather play with a basic bot than the average BBO member
Alderaan delenda est
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#8 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2019-July-11, 09:27

View Postthepossum, on 2019-July-10, 19:00, said:

It raises an interesting question for the non-tournament use. I know non-tournament hands dont mean that much but I have occasionally noticed differences in play on regular IMP casual play that I wondered if they were down to Advanced vs Basic bots - eg with seemingly identical auctions and play by declarer, having different leads or plays from time to time. I havent been able to pin it down though

It could be basic vs. advanced.

But there's also some randomness in robot bidding and play. They make use of simulations, which involves dealing out a bunch of random hands that fit the conditions of the bidding and play so far (and a few that don't, to allow for psychs). In tournaments, we force all the bots to use the same random number sequence, so if your bidding and play is the same as someone else's, the robots should do the same thing. But non-tourney robots are not forced to be the same.

#9 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2019-July-11, 09:30

View Posthrothgar, on 2019-July-11, 05:38, said:

I rather play with a basic bot than the average BBO member

We've tested both basic and advanced bots, having them play robot tournaments in the human seat. I don't remember the actual results, but it's something like basic bots average 56% and advanced are 58%. So they're both decent players, but advanced are better.

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