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What does 4N mean here?

Poll: What does 4N mean here? (43 member(s) have cast votes)

After 3N - 4[sp] by opp what is 4N?

  1. To play (34 votes [79.07%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 79.07%

  2. Pick a minor (1 votes [2.33%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 2.33%

  3. Ace asking (2 votes [4.65%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.65%

  4. Something else?! (6 votes [13.95%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 13.95%

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#1 User is offline   nekthen 

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Posted 2019-June-12, 04:31

Partner opened 3N (gambling) opps interfered with 4, my bid.
I chose 4N

Partner's hand


What now?
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#2 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2019-June-12, 05:44

I have had this auction more than once. We definitely want it to play.
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#3 User is offline   FelicityR 

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Posted 2019-June-12, 06:46

The 4NT bidder already knows partner's hand. Maximum one ace. So it's always going to be to play in this auction. 5 is the pick a minor bid here.
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#4 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2019-June-12, 07:35

Hi,

The option missing: a good raise to 5m, in which case the direct 5m
can be made on weaker hands, it would also set up a FP seq.

This would be the meaning for us, from default agreements, ..., if you
dont have this agreement, it is to play.

Given the colors, to play is certainly a sensible option, on the other hand,
I rarely pick up hands, that want to make a gambling 3NT opening bid, i.e.
and the follow up auction makes it even less likely that I will encounter this
more than once in my lifetime, i.e. the default agreement is fine.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#5 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2019-June-12, 14:34

View PostTramticket, on 2019-June-12, 05:44, said:

I have had this auction more than once. We definitely want it to play.


More than twice? B-)
I can live with any solution, given the infrequency the important thing is to remember which.
FWIW I slightly prefer 4N as RKC for the unidentified minor, with 5 pass/correct.
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#6 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

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Posted 2019-June-12, 15:44

The way most people play gambling, rkc response is already known. 2 with.
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#7 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2019-June-13, 02:09

View PostStephen Tu, on 2019-June-12, 15:44, said:

The way most people play gambling, rkc response is already known. 2 with.

Quite right, so that makes no sense. Asking for a side Queen sounds a bit academic, so I change my vote to natural then.
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#8 User is offline   nekthen 

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Posted 2019-June-13, 04:40

The whole hand

From a top to a bottom in one bid


Sadly opps have 3 top tricks, with a stiff spade I could understand pulling but I think you should treat 4N as natural and trust p.
You can always win the pm if you pass!

OK actually 44% as many were in 5 doubled

The errors continued into the play when South cashed her aces and, not wishing to set up Q if East has a singleton, played a heart at trick 3.

Partner can now run the diamonds keeping the Q and AQ and S is squeezed on the last
Sadly, partner did not see this line and played to drop the K :blink:
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#9 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2019-June-13, 05:52

I wouldn't have bid 4NT with that West hand. You can't be sure that you are supplying 3 tricks, to go with partner's promised 7 and you have reasonable hopes of defence against 4. 4NT looks like A AXXXX XX AXXXX.
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#10 User is offline   nekthen 

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Posted 2019-June-13, 06:19

View PostTramticket, on 2019-June-13, 05:52, said:

I wouldn't have bid 4NT with that West hand. You can't be sure that you are supplying 3 tricks, to go with partner's promised 7 and you have reasonable hopes of defence against 4. 4NT looks like A AXXXX XX AXXXX.


Given South has all the outstanding points, I thought it a reasonable gamble
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#11 User is offline   eagles123 

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Posted 2019-June-13, 07:53

View Postnekthen, on 2019-June-13, 06:19, said:

Given South has all the outstanding points, I thought it a reasonable gamble


well that's a pretty wild assumption why can't the hand be



for example

ps this whole topic seems like an attempt to show how crap your partner is, which seems to me like rather poor form.
"definitely that's what I like to play when I'm playing standard - I want to be able to bid diamonds because bidding good suits is important in bridge" - Meckstroth's opinion on weak 2 diamond
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#12 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2019-June-13, 08:11

View PostP_Marlowe, on 2019-June-12, 07:35, said:

Hi,

The option missing: a good raise to 5m, in which case the direct 5m
can be made on weaker hands, it would also set up a FP seq.

This would be the meaning for us, from default agreements, ..., if you
dont have this agreement, it is to play.

Given the colors, to play is certainly a sensible option, on the other hand,
I rarely pick up hands, that want to make a gambling 3NT opening bid, i.e.
and the follow up auction makes it even less likely that I will encounter this
more than once in my lifetime, i.e. the default agreement is fine.

With kind regards
Marlowe

Sir,I fully agree with you .These aspects have to be kept in mind when your partner uses this treatment (4NT is to play) or he is a stranger .
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#13 User is offline   nekthen 

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Posted 2019-June-13, 09:09

View Posteagles123, on 2019-June-13, 07:53, said:

well that's a pretty wild assumption why can't the hand be



for example

ps this whole topic seems like an attempt to show how crap your partner is, which seems to me like rather poor form.


Pretty pointless as my partner is not named and does not go on bbo. I just wanted to see if my peers agreed it was to play. Of course, it is much easier to see the squeeze afterwards, I do not know if I would have found the play as declarer.

I agree its a gamble, but 4 is probably not enough off. At MPs I think the possible results favour 4N, maybe at IMPS pass is the right action
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#14 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2019-June-14, 00:56

Sir,not going by the results ,it is rather unfortunate that partner chose to open 3NT with an Eight card RUNNING suit AND THE HQ outside.Sone may open this hand 1D and some less lucky 4/5 D.
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#15 User is offline   nekthen 

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Posted 2019-June-14, 02:43

My partner is old school and would probably be horrified by the idea that a gambling 3N is now acceptable with AKQxxxx. I bet a straw poll at my club would find the majority agreeing that an 8 card running suit is required. How times change!
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