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How to open this hand without lying or breaking some "rule"? 4 spades and 6 hearts

#1 User is offline   kereru67 

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Posted 2019-May-23, 18:35

Nobody's vulnerable, there's a pass on my right, and I have:


My options are:
(1) Pass. Don't like this, my hand is potentially very strong, and with 9 hcp there is a danger of the hand being passed out
(2) Open 1. This is misleading with 9 hcp, my partner expects about 12 hcp, certainly in second position, and might get interested in NT.
(3) Open 2. This is what I went for... the objection of course is that it kills a potential fit, and it could get very awkward if partner gets enthusiastic about .

Some hands just don't fit into the system and it's impossible to bid them without breaking "the rules". It seems I have a choice of lies here. Which is the best lie to tell?
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#2 User is offline   TylerE 

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Posted 2019-May-23, 20:01

1 is absolutely obvious. 6-4 hands play well. This hand is way, way, way better than at least 30% of the hands you routinely open 1 on. Maybe 50%.
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#3 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2019-May-24, 01:40

The bid I really dislike is 2 - I have far more playing strength than partner will expect and partner may undervalue a hand with spades.

Passing is not silly. Holding the majors makes it easier to compete later. But my fear is that my pass would be followed by two more passes and I return this fine hand back into the board without doing it justice.

But I am perfectly happy with opening 1. We have the playing strength and we want a heart lead. We have excellent shape with good intermediaries. The hand looks prettier the more I stare at it ...
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#4 User is offline   kereru67 

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Posted 2019-May-24, 02:58

Thanks both, in writing my question and laying out the arguments I actually convinced myself that 1 is correct. Ideal scenario is partner responds in ; more likely it will be , in which case I have to repeat the . I probably have to repeat if they bid NT too. At least this way I'm not denying a suit.

For reference, what is your bid if you substitute Q for K? What about J? And if you substitute a for one of the , does it then become a 1 opening? And what other slight changes to the hand might alter your opening bid?
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#5 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2019-May-24, 07:58

View Postkereru67, on 2019-May-24, 02:58, said:

For reference, what is your bid if you substitute Q for K? What about J?


You will find different opinions about the merits of opening a weak two with four cards in the other major. I am in the "it depends" middle ground. Four-cards in the other major as an indicative feature against opening a weak two bid. I also see the club void as an indicative feature against the bid.

So in your example, sitting in second seat (so partner is not a passed hand), I wouldn't open 2 with your two suggested substitutions - I would pass in either case. A J1063 suit is very playable in spades. Change the spade suit to 9863 and I will treat the hand as single suited and open two hearts.

Things are very different if sitting in third seat opposite a partner who has passed. I would happily open 2 or even 3 with Q1063 on the side. I might even open 4 With your actual hand (K1063 KQ10972 1092 -), since I have plenty of playing strength, but much less defensive strength.
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#6 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2019-May-24, 08:06

2 has too much against it. What people said plus second seat is another strike against a weak 2.
With the void I would open 1.
Passing might work as you have both majors. But when opps open 3 you will likely regret
Sarcasm is a state of mind
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#7 User is offline   FelicityR 

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Posted 2019-May-24, 08:39

You're not breaking any rule here if you play in England. This hand meets the Rule of 19 criteria. Length of two longest suits 6-4 added to HCPs (9) = 19. Open 1H
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#8 User is offline   eagles123 

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Posted 2019-May-24, 10:50

I would just pass and come in later. don't mind 1H but 2H is terrible
"definitely that's what I like to play when I'm playing standard - I want to be able to bid diamonds because bidding good suits is important in bridge" - Meckstroth's opinion on weak 2 diamond
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#9 User is offline   HardVector 

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Posted 2019-May-24, 16:33

Pass. It never fails, when I open this, it goes 1h-2c-2h-3n...down 3.
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#10 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2019-May-24, 17:11

This is very much a question about partnership agreement...

There are some pairs who style is consistent with a 1! opening.
There are others who would pass.

Neither of these approaches is wrong. You need to decide which you prefer.

I think that a 2!H opening would frowned upon. WAY too many flaws

1. Side suit void
2. Wide 4 card major
3. Misrepresents playing strength
Alderaan delenda est
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#11 User is offline   HardVector 

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Posted 2019-May-24, 19:22

By the way, I direct you to this:
http://bridgewinners...t-of-the-books/
It's an article by Kit Woolsey and shows you the information that can be gleaned by passing this and coming in later. Notice also how much better the hand that initially passed is to the questioned hand in this thread.
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#12 User is offline   kereru67 

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Posted 2019-May-24, 19:52

believe it or not the actual outcome was partner bid 5 and made it... but 4 (4-4 fit) would have been better
full deal:

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#13 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2019-May-26, 07:04

Hi,

I would go with Pass, 2nd choice 1H.

The answer to your question, if you cant show your hand in a way, so that
you feel comfortable, pass.

Locating the 44 spade fit in the given layout is simple after a 1H opening,
basically impossible after a 2H opening, ..., and not easy after Pass.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#14 User is offline   kereru67 

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Posted 2019-May-26, 11:17

View PostP_Marlowe, on 2019-May-26, 07:04, said:

Hi,

I would go with Pass, 2nd choice 1H.

The answer to your question, if you cant show your hand in a way, so that
you feel comfortable, pass.

Locating the 44 spade fit in the given layout is simple after a 1H opening,
basically impossible after a 2H opening, ..., and not easy after Pass.

With kind regards
Marlowe


Not sure that finding the fit is simple, e.g.
and it's not easy for either of us to introduce . We might decide that it's easier to take down 3.
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#15 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2019-May-26, 13:45

View Posthrothgar, on 2019-May-24, 17:11, said:

This is very much a question about partnership agreement...

There are some pairs who style is consistent with a 1! opening.
There are others who would pass.


This is an interesting question for TDs and Law experts though.
If a pair (or just one of the pair) will consistently open such hands at 1-level, is this a de-facto agreement that must be disclosed to opponents?
If so, how (other than on the CC): alert every 1-level opening and/or pre-alert the agreement?
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#16 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2019-May-26, 14:09

View Postpescetom, on 2019-May-26, 13:45, said:

This is an interesting question for TDs and Law experts though.
If a pair (or just one of the pair) will consistently open such hands at 1-level, is this a de-facto agreement that must be disclosed to opponents?
If so, how (other than on the CC): alert every 1-level opening and/or pre-alert the agreement?


That depends very much on where you are playing and what level of event that you are playing in...
Alderaan delenda est
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#17 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2019-May-26, 22:29

The hand is either a pass or 1 bid.

With the major holdings, I'd bid 1 even though I'm a reasonably conservative opener (12 HCP, 2 QTs).
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#18 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2019-May-27, 02:36

View Postkereru67, on 2019-May-26, 11:17, said:

Not sure that finding the fit is simple, e.g.
and it's not easy for either of us to introduce . We might decide that it's easier to take down 3.

Ok, I was just looking at the uncontested auction.
But I dont think, that East is being interested in going for blood against 3D,
he is 74, ..., and given his partners has opened, he wont stop below game.
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#19 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2019-May-27, 06:03

View Postkereru67, on 2019-May-26, 11:17, said:

Not sure that finding the fit is simple, e.g.
and it's not easy for either of us to introduce . We might decide that it's easier to take down 3.


If East doubles it is simple to find the spades fit and bid game... but that's a question of style I guess.
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