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A silly looking Grand Slam Plan your play.

#1 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2019-May-14, 08:08

Sirs.I am presenting a deal and a very exciting one from a team event that I played last month.I, humbly, request my fellow columnists to convert it to a hand diagram as I till now have never understood how to do it, As EAST you hold 52--A97--AJ10985--A7 .I opened 1D.and the bidding went 1D-1S-3S(void S)-4H-4NT(RKC)-5H(4 card support)-6D( DK and DQ)--6S-7D.ALL PASS. LEAD-SK(King from AK) and Dummy hit the table VOID-KJ42-KQ642-Q9.Drawing some inference from the bidding and the lead I did make the silly looking contract after taking a long time to decide the line of play.This deal is for advanced and above rating. The result I assure you was surprising for the four kibitzers .Plan the play your way.The trumps were 0/2 RHO having two.
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#2 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

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Posted 2019-May-14, 08:43

Just use the "hand editor", the picture of the spade between two vertical bars, roughly in the middle of the middle toolbar. Follow the prompts and you should be able to get it after some trial and error.



You only gave 11 cards for dummy, I gave dummy a couple extra clubs. Post your own diagram if incorrect.

BTW I find it a bit weird that you always post messages with "Sir" or "Sirs". Seems unnecessarily formal for this board. And exclusionary to female posters/readers.
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#3 User is offline   alok c 

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Posted 2019-May-14, 09:52

First try ruffing the to drop the K .There is no clue about the meaning of East's 4H bid.
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#4 User is offline   DozyDom 

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Posted 2019-May-14, 10:34

View Postalok c, on 2019-May-14, 09:52, said:

First try ruffing the to drop the K .There is no clue about the meaning of East's 4H bid.

Difficult to ruff a club in the grand. 4H needs no clues - it's just a psyche, with some spade support, or that's how it looks.

Looks like W is 6-5-0-2, which... seems fine. Ruff the KS lead in dummy, cross in trumps, ruff a spade high, play five more rounds of trumps. Discard clubs from dummy on the first two discards, then on the last round W has to discard in front of dummy to either bare the KC or allow you to take 4 heart tricks.

W could of course be 6-4-0-3, in which case the exact same line works. But in that case E started with QJxxx xx xx jxxx, and has competed at the 6-level on that garbage. 5-5 seems more likely.

Or it could be something else and I'm completely wrong, which is very possible.


EDIT: or 5-4-0-4, which I didn't consider because I thought they'd start with a takeout double, and because E would again be bidding 6S with a semi-balanced hand. The line still works.
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#5 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2019-May-14, 11:53

DD has it right, imo.

Also, this isn't that tough a hand, at least not for an expert. One needs to dispose of a club loser from hand, and one also needs to assume that one doesn't have a heart loser.

Since LHO bid 5H, and we are missing 11 spades at the point that he did this, it seems clear that RHO was operating (unwisely, I might add. A basic tenet of interference against strong-sounding auctions is to bid as high as one can afford, and not to make 'cute' non-space-consuming calls).

Now, bidding hearts, as East, on a void, with long spades, is an exception to that, but even so I would tend to jump in hearts, to take away space. As it is, clearly RHO is not void in hearts. Equally clearly he has a lot of spades.

We ruff the spade, come to our hand in trump, noting the break. We can place LHO with 6=4 as he did not michaels. Note that this is not a strong inference and I would make it only as a provisional view, subject to change. He might, for example, prefer to bid 1S with KQJxxx Qxxxx void Kx.

In any event, he has at least 4 hearts to bid 5H, and that means that he is odds on to hold the heart Queen. It also means that he cannot hold a heart guard and protect the club K.

Basically the hand plays itself. We need the heart finesse...playing rho for Qx is inconsistent with the inferences one should draw (nobody, even the 'cute' East, is likely to bid hearts on Qx, possibly attracting a heart lead from partner).

We need 4 heart tricks, and no west is bidding 5H on Qxx (plus we don't care...our line wins on that anyway).

So ruff spade, cross in trump, ruff spade, and after ruffing the second spade, trump to hand, heart A (catering to stiff Q, which is implausible but not impossible), heart to the J, then club to the Ace, then finish the trump.

While the line is made obvious by the bidding, it is the only realistic line in grand anyway: this works anytime LHO has Qxx(x)(x) in hearts and the club K.
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#6 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2019-May-14, 13:48

View Postalok c, on 2019-May-14, 09:52, said:

First try ruffing the to drop the K .There is no clue about the meaning of East's 4H bid.


Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever is left, no matter how improbable, must be the truth. - S. Holmes :)
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#7 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2019-May-14, 16:23

View Postalok c, on 2019-May-14, 09:52, said:

First try ruffing the to drop the K .There is no clue about the meaning of East's 4H bid.


You don't need to drop the K if you are going to do that. Ruff the 2nd round of clubs and the 3rd round of hearts and cross ruff the hand. WTP :)
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#8 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2019-May-15, 21:20

View Postalok c, on 2019-May-14, 09:52, said:

First try ruffing the to drop the K .There is no clue about the meaning of East's 4H bid.

JUST HOW ARE YOU GOING TO RUFF THE CLUBS IN HAND ?To do that you have to discard the club 7 from hand first. and there is nothing in dummy on what to do so.If at all you could discard it then there are top 13 tricks and I would not have posted this problem.
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#9 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2019-May-15, 22:11

SIRS/MADAMS/MISS. Practically all are thinking on the lines of a VIENNA coup. I shall disclose the west hand after I say what I thought.1) West did not double over 1D but made an overcall of 1S.2)After the dummy came down it was evident that East had psyched as it was explained that West holds 4 cards in hearts for his raise.I presumed that E usually swill not psyche with Qx.3)West was void in trumps.He did not have a opening hand with both the majors,4)He was marked with AK of spade and HQ (at least it appeared so).I was hence certain that he did not have the CK East could have passed 6D bid leaving the decision to West whose Honour holdings were not THAT clearcut.What could incite him to lure me to bid 7D?I could imagine the CK in his hand.Hence the Vienna was out.To squeeze W in heats and clubs my ONLY hope ,with the picture in my mind, was if W held the J10x or J10xx of clubs .Hence after eliminating the spades and at the same time drawing trumps ending in Dummy and led the Queen of Clubs covered and won .And now the C9 of clubs became the THREAT casrd.The last 5 cards position was as under SOUTH H--A97 D-J- and C-7, WEST held H- Q1086 and C-J NORTH- H KJ42 and C9. When I led the last trump West was squeezed.West held S--AKJ764, H--Q1086-D-Void C-J105 Can this be labelled "CONTROL TRANSFER VIENNA COUP? I politely and humbly ask ALL was this not a bit of surprise ending.? I ACTUALLY played this hand and vouch I have not borrowed it from somewhere..
'Thanks to all in advance.
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#10 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2019-May-15, 22:28

View PostStephen Tu, on 2019-May-14, 08:43, said:

Just use the "hand editor", the picture of the spade between two vertical bars, roughly in the middle of the middle toolbar. Follow the prompts and you should be able to get it after some trial and error.



You only gave 11 cards for dummy, I gave dummy a couple extra clubs. Post your own diagram if incorrect.

BTW I find it a bit weird that you always post messages with "Sir" or "Sirs". Seems unnecessarily formal for this board. And exclusionary to female posters/readers.

THANKS A LOT for correcting and creating the hand diagram.Thanks also for suggesting not to address all posters/resders as Sir/Sirs.
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#11 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2019-May-15, 22:57

View Postjohnu, on 2019-May-14, 16:23, said:

You don't need to drop the K if you are going to do that. Ruff the 2nd round of clubs and the 3rd round of hearts and cross ruff the hand. WTP :)
Sir.firstly how can you get rid of the club 7 from your hand? Its not that easy.OH MY! Sorry I did not think that your answer was to tease the poster.
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#12 User is offline   ahydra 

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Posted 2019-May-15, 23:08

I'm not entirely sure why we think East is bidding 4H on a small singleton or doubleton. It achieves absolutely nothing, as NS have agreed diamonds. Can not West be 6-6 in the majors? True, East didn't double 7D - but it would depend on the level of the East player as to whether he knew about Lightner doubles.

msjennifer, well done on finding a good line. But, how did you come to the conclusion that "[West] did not have a opening hand with both the majors" (and hence that East had the CK)? Something about the way they played their Michaels?

ahydra
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#13 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2019-May-15, 23:34

View Postahydra, on 2019-May-15, 23:08, said:

I'm not entirely sure why we think East is bidding 4H on a small singleton or doubleton. It achieves absolutely nothing, as NS have agreed diamonds. Can not West be 6-6 in the majors? True, East didn't double 7D - but it would depend on the level of the East player as to whether he knew about Lightner doubles.

msjennifer, well done on finding a good line. But, how did you come to the conclusion that "[West] did not have a opening hand with both the majors" (and hence that East had the CK)? Something about the way they played their Michaels?

ahydra

Sir with that or some other major suited hand he would use Michaels (a bid of 2D) or make a natural TOD.(with AKxxxx -Qxxx-Kxx).I was also informed that W showed specifically 4 card support.The opponents, although not experts, were known to be using all the bids and conventions in todays bridge.(whether they applied those wisdomly or not remains to be confirmed) As I said "why did he entice me into bidding 7D by bidding a premature 6S unless he visualised SOME defence to defeat 7D." As to why he bid 4H with a doubleton is make it APPEAR that he was holding a void and hoping it would prevent us from bidding a slam.They do underrate us ladies, in all sports, do not they.?


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#14 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2019-May-16, 00:10


MsJennifer asks ' Can this be labelled "CONTROL TRANSFER VIENNA COUP?'
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Thank you, MsJennifer for the interesting deal.
Yes, it's a control-transfer although the more common term is "menace transfer".
If the 9 and 7 were swapped you might call it a Vienna Coup -- especially were you trying to squeeze RHO rather than LHO.
Congratulations on your table-feel that enabled you to negotiate this complex position.
Your line is hard to find because it requires declarer to place all 3 honours correctly.
Whereas the simple-squeeze requires LHO to hold only K in addition to the s.

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#15 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2019-May-16, 01:19

View PostStephen Tu, on 2019-May-14, 08:43, said:

Just use the "hand editor", the picture of the spade between two vertical bars, roughly in the middle of the middle toolbar. Follow the prompts and you should be able to get it after some trial and error.



You only gave 11 cards for dummy, I gave dummy a couple extra clubs. Post your own diagram if incorrect.

BTW I find it a bit weird that you always post messages with "Sir" or "Sirs". Seems unnecessarily formal for this board. And exclusionary to female posters/readers.

Sir,thanks a lot.I am now able to construct a hand diagram using the instructions which you gave so kindly.
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#16 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

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Posted 2019-May-16, 02:07

View Postmsjennifer, on 2019-May-15, 23:34, said:

Sir with that or some other major suited hand he would use Michaels (a bid of 2D) or make a natural TOD.(with AKxxxx -Qxxx-Kxx).I was also informed that W showed specifically 4 card support.The opponents, although not experts, were known to be using all the bids and conventions in todays bridge.(whether they applied those wisdomly or not remains to be confirmed) As I said "why did he entice me into bidding 7D by bidding a premature 6S unless he visualised SOME defence to defeat 7D." As to why he bid 4H with a doubleton is make it APPEAR that he was holding a void and hoping it would prevent us from bidding a slam.They do underrate us ladies, in all sports, do not they.?


I don't think some of your inferences were totally solid.

1.Why does West have to have AK of spades, rather than say KQ of spades?


2.You assume that he would takeout dbl with 5404 or 6403 shape. This IMO is incorrect without a HUGE hand from West, at least with modern advanced/expert player thinking. Maybe takeout dbl is common among older or lesser players. But the modern trend is definitely to *overcall* holding 5 cd majors at the 1 level, not takeout dbl, unless very strong (maybe 18+ HCP). The reasoning is:
  • If you don't overcall, you basically bury all 5-3 major fits forever. Because you aren't really strong enough to dbl then unilaterally bid your suit later in the auction which shows a big hand. Partner can raise your overcall on not much, but they won't ever introduce a 3 cd suit in your long major in response to dbl, and if you can't either ...
  • The other major can often be recovered in subsequent bidding, by either the overcaller trying a takeout dbl later, or responder making a responsive double.
This doesn't apply as much at higher levels as there is less space and less likely you will get multiple opportunities to show your hand, often you are somewhat forced to takeout dbl as it shows more of your hand in one go. But at the 1 level you definitely should not be thinking that people takeout dbl with 5 cd majors frequently.


3. Maybe he isn't thinking that he is going to drive you into 7D. He maybe thinks it's most probable you'll take the money by doubling and not bidding a speculative grand. I doubt he thought 7d was in the picture, after all IMO you were rather lucky to find the cards in the position such you could make it, and in the long run you probably do better to double. Maybe he just sac'd because he has 6 cd spades to the ace and you seem confident and he thinks he can get out for -800.
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#17 User is offline   DozyDom 

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Posted 2019-May-16, 05:14

View Postmsjennifer, on 2019-May-15, 22:11, said:

SIRS/MADAMS/MISS. Practically all are thinking on the lines of a VIENNA coup. I shall disclose the west hand after I say what I thought.1) West did not double over 1D but made an overcall of 1S.2)After the dummy came down it was evident that East had psyched as it was explained that West holds 4 cards in hearts for his raise.I presumed that E usually swill not psyche with Qx.3)West was void in trumps.He did not have a opening hand with both the majors,4)He was marked with AK of spade and HQ (at least it appeared so).I was hence certain that he did not have the CK East could have passed 6D bid leaving the decision to West whose Honour holdings were not THAT clearcut.What could incite him to lure me to bid 7D?I could imagine the CK in his hand.Hence the Vienna was out.To squeeze W in heats and clubs my ONLY hope ,with the picture in my mind, was if W held the J10x or J10xx of clubs .Hence after eliminating the spades and at the same time drawing trumps ending in Dummy and led the Queen of Clubs covered and won .And now the C9 of clubs became the THREAT casrd.The last 5 cards position was as under SOUTH H--A97 D-J- and C-7, WEST held H- Q1086 and C-J NORTH- H KJ42 and C9. When I led the last trump West was squeezed.West held S--AKJ764, H--Q1086-D-Void C-J105 Can this be labelled "CONTROL TRANSFER VIENNA COUP? I politely and humbly ask ALL was this not a bit of surprise ending.? I ACTUALLY played this hand and vouch I have not borrowed it from somewhere..
'Thanks to all in advance.

That really is good stuff! You can tell that I was a bit perturbed by E's bidding; the KC being in E does explain things, even if there are shaky inferences (I don't believe that I would start with a takeout double on AKxxxx qxxx - Kxx, so I don't think W has denied an opening hand, but the KC being in E makes their bidding make more sense). Lovely line, thanks for the hand!
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#18 User is online   cherdano 

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Posted 2019-May-16, 06:17

East's bidding is completely nuts and if you are able to infer that he must have CK you are either a genius who can mind-read crazy bidders or you are extremely lucky.

I also find it amusing to read that 5H promises exactly 4 trumps. Is LHO forced to bid 6 with 5-card support regardless of the rest of his hand? Is he not allowed to raise a voluntary 4H bid with 3-card support and a void?
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#19 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2019-May-16, 10:18

View PostStephen Tu, on 2019-May-16, 02:07, said:

I don't think some of your inferences were totally solid.

1.Why does West have to have AK of spades, rather than say KQ of spades?


2.You assume that he would takeout dbl with 5404 or 6403 shape. This IMO is incorrect without a HUGE hand from West, at least with modern advanced/expert player thinking. Maybe takeout dbl is common among older or lesser players. But the modern trend is definitely to *overcall* holding 5 cd majors at the 1 level, not takeout dbl, unless very strong (maybe 18+ HCP). The reasoning is:
  • If you don't overcall, you basically bury all 5-3 major fits forever. Because you aren't really strong enough to dbl then unilaterally bid your suit later in the auction which shows a big hand. Partner can raise your overcall on not much, but they won't ever introduce a 3 cd suit in your long major in response to dbl, and if you can't either ...
  • The other major can often be recovered in subsequent bidding, by either the overcaller trying a takeout dbl later, or responder making a responsive double.
This doesn't apply as much at higher levels as there is less space and less likely you will get multiple opportunities to show your hand, often you are somewhat forced to takeout dbl as it shows more of your hand in one go. But at the 1 level you definitely should not be thinking that people takeout dbl with 5 cd majors frequently.


3. Maybe he isn't thinking that he is going to drive you into 7D. He maybe thinks it's most probable you'll take the money by doubling and not bidding a speculative grand. I doubt he thought 7d was in the picture, after all IMO you were rather lucky to find the cards in the position such you could make it, and in the long run you probably do better to double. Maybe he just sac'd because he has 6 cd spades to the ace and you seem confident and he thinks he can get out for -800.

Sir I specifically said AK as the pair plays reverse opening leads and would have led the Q from KQ.As regards bidding major suited hands I concur with you fully.I shall certainly pass the information to that pair also,(I shall have a proof to show them).Thanks .
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