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Awkward Hand to Bid

Poll: Best Bid (9 member(s) have cast votes)

Best Bid

  1. Pass. Bad idea to bid vulnerable (2 votes [22.22%])

    Percentage of vote: 22.22%

  2. Pass. With Lightner Double Expectation (1 votes [11.11%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.11%

  3. Double. Showing something... (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  4. Four Hearts. Cue Bid (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  5. Four Spades. Showing Suit (1 votes [11.11%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.11%

  6. Four No Trumps to Confuse Opponents (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  7. Five Clubs. Cue Bid (4 votes [44.44%])

    Percentage of vote: 44.44%

  8. Five Diamonds (1 votes [11.11%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.11%

  9. Other (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

Would your choice be different playing IMPs

  1. Yes (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  2. No (9 votes [100.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 100.00%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 User is offline   FelicityR 

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Posted 2019-May-12, 08:03

This was a difficult hand I encountered last week playing MPs against good opponents who were playing Five Card Major Acol. Upon asking, I was reliably informed that the 4D splinter bid by the opponents would show 4+ hearts as support, 11+ HCPs. I was very apprehensive bidding the poor spade suit, thinking that partner would infer that it's better than it is especially vulnerable.

I felt it was a particularly hard hand to evaluate, especially vulnerable, whether one was playing MPs or IMPs, and that there were a number of options available. From my cards I had a feeling the opponents were heading towards a heart small slam, so I was tempted to pass hoping that they arrived there and I could make a Lightner Double for the club lead.

However, I finally chose after a long think 4NT as (I hoped) Blackwood, knowing that my partner would not have more than one ace and if necessary we could deceptively arrive in 5 Diamonds. It also still gave me the option of a Lightner Double if they still arrived in a heart small slam.

As always I am interested in your opinions, and thank you in advance for your replies.


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#2 User is offline   etha 

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Posted 2019-May-12, 08:24

not sure there is any right choice here it is all psychological against the opponents and getting them to do the wrong thing.
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#3 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2019-May-12, 09:01

Pass. The potential defensive tricks are wnough to persuade me not to get involved and risk a large penalty.
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#4 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2019-May-12, 09:59

If it was Friday night playing for fun I would bid spades: it's not going to get passed out and partner knows our place is diamonds, it just makes Lightner safer. But in a serious tournament I pass.
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#5 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2019-May-12, 15:02

At MPs, I'm passing. There's just too much chance of going for down 2 doubled versus a NV game which is the kiss of death.

At IMPs, if I'm bidding anything, it'd be 5 . But I'd only consider that bid if partner tendencies in bidding weak jump overcalls are to be reasonably sound at unfavorable vulnerability. Here you're not worried so much about down 2 vulnerable as a down 3 doubled or worse set. Yeah, down 2 gives up -500 versus -420, but that's only a couple IMPs at most.

I'm not mentioning if I bid. RHO has splintered and has shown at a minimum 4 red cards (4 trump w/void) and could hold possibly 6(5 trump w/stiff) leaving somewhere between 7-9 black cards in the hand. I think that diminishes the possibility of a fit with partner. The other consideration is that if I mention , partner who is on lead against a contract is likely to lead them.

The positive to the hand is that it does have the complementary distribution that increases the number of tricks our side can take.
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#6 User is offline   HardVector 

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Posted 2019-May-12, 15:21

It kind of depends upon how your partner preempts. I, personally, don't like to have too much defense when I do it. So my values are mostly in my preempt suit with maybe one significant card outside it. If that is true, 4h looks pretty solid and I think your evaluation of them being close to slam are accurate. If 4 is a splinter, the splinter being a void looks to be at least 50%, which means you are getting no diamonds and 1 heart on defense. Partner may (or may not) have a trick on defense, so I want to force them to 5 and make them guess on 6.

In anticipation of them bidding 6, I'm going to bid 4s. Here, the quality of your spade suit shouldn't be of concern, the opponent's bidding has made it pretty clear you are sacrificing. If 4s gets doubled, you have a safe run to 5d, and if they get to 6, then the Lightner double looks clear (don't lead a diamond, don't lead a spade). I'm not sure in that sequence whether the double would be lightner or not, however. I can't recall anyone ever discussing it.
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#7 User is online   TheoKole 

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Posted 2019-May-12, 19:42

View PostFelicityR, on 2019-May-12, 08:03, said:

This was a difficult hand I encountered last week playing MPs against good opponents who were playing Five Card Major Acol. Upon asking, I was reliably informed that the 4D splinter bid by the opponents would show 4+ hearts as support, 11+ HCPs. I was very apprehensive bidding the poor spade suit, thinking that partner would infer that it's better than it is especially vulnerable.

I felt it was a particularly hard hand to evaluate, especially vulnerable, whether one was playing MPs or IMPs, and that there were a number of options available. From my cards I had a feeling the opponents were heading towards a heart small slam, so I was tempted to pass hoping that they arrived there and I could make a Lightner Double for the club lead.

However, I finally chose after a long think 4NT as (I hoped) Blackwood, knowing that my partner would not have more than one ace and if necessary we could deceptively arrive in 5 Diamonds. It also still gave me the option of a Lightner Double if they still arrived in a heart small slam.

As always I am interested in your opinions, and thank you in advance for your replies.





I'm going to suggest that you bid 5 whether or not partner would take it as a cue bid or not. The only problem is the adverse colours of red vs white. At favorable colors I would definitely do so. The reason is simple mathematics. 10 down at white vs red is 500 vs 620 or 650 or 680 at worst even if they do not bid their small slam. I think that you can count on getting your Ace as a trick in a 5 contract. Also it should be obvious that if you are doubled you will revert to . If partner raises you! (LOL) you can also outbid him in diamonds.

I think that a small slam for them is odds on right now and the only advantage that you have is that you are the first player to be aware of this fact. The adverse red vs white colours have a danger of being left to play in 5 undoubled for -10 down. Personally I find this danger to be very very low on average, (both opponents would have to resist the temptation to double). If you have an agreement with partner of a lightner double after this kind of auction for him to lead your "suit" then this kind of bid has even higher advantages, especially at imps.


This kind of strategic "void suit bid" comes around very rarely, especially when you can escape to a higher ranking suit so I take advantage of it every time that I can.


Cheers, T
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#8 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2019-May-15, 14:51

I am way uncertain I can defeat 6h w/o a club lead so I am going to bid 5c now and x if they reach 6h which should mean P I told you what to lead and now I am reaping the rewards of all that I sowed. Bidding 4s has appeal but I have serious doubts a x of 6h would ask for a club lead vs a dia lead. 5c cant really be natural (unlike 4s) with the only real downside being the opps get to 6c which has no chance of being beaten (sigh). Of course going down 2 in 5dx can also be a sort of downside at MP but I am betting good opps can still get to probable slam and do not mind preparing for it.
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#9 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2019-May-17, 05:44

Hi,

I like 5C.

Given the vulnerability, it is easy to come up with hands, that allow 5D=,
i.e. I am not afraid of going down -500.
That assumes, that partner, like me respects the given vulnerability.
Knowing your partner is important, and much more, than knowing the strength of
the opponents.

I dont think 4NT achieves much, they already have told each other, that they
have a strong hand.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#10 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2019-May-17, 09:33

Firstly, bidding 4N won't fool the opps. LHO knows he has an opening hand, and he knows his partner splintered. The notion that the opps would now think that this was a slam hand for you is untenable.


I had written a long post about the various alternatives and the pluses and minuses, but the analysis really doesn't lead to any clear conclusion.

I think the correct (i.e. long term winning) action is clear at imps and less clear at mps. At imps, one simply bids 6D and then doubles 6H.

6D may have play, and indeed may be cold, although I doubt it. x x AJxxxxx xxxx makes 6D very good, with the splinter, and he will have a better hand than that for a red v white preempt. Kx x AKxxxxx xxx is, to my mind, a better 3D call than it is a 2D call, and now slam is good but of course not cold, and so on. I expect 6D to fail. I also expect it to rarely fail by more than 1. Consider this: if partner has 7 diamonds headed by the Ace, and as few as 3 clubs, we have 11 tricks already.

And by bidding 6D I make it very difficult indeed for the opps. If they bid 6H, my double is clearly lightner, and I can't imagine partner leading spades.

If 6D turns out badly, it is but a single board, and I will have made the opps work for their result (and likely to guess well).
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
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