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Any suggestions ?

#1 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2019-April-18, 16:32



Any suggestions here, this was a bizarre board from my teams match today
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#2 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2019-April-18, 19:10

Cyberyeti asks 'Any suggestions here, this was a bizarre board from my teams match today'
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
As usual, your choice is influenced by your agreements.
- For example. if partner's double suggests a desire to punish opponents, and creates a forcing-pass context, then you are delighted to pass.
- A more up-to-date treatment, recommended by John Matheson is that partner's double just suggests competitive values without a good long suit or primary support. With that agreement, a 3 change of suit at the 3-level should be forcing -- but to avoid any possible silly misunderstanding, a 3 cue-bid seems to express your values well.

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#3 User is offline   HardVector 

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Posted 2019-April-18, 23:46

View PostCyberyeti, on 2019-April-18, 16:32, said:



Any suggestions here, this was a bizarre board from my teams match today

I'd say pass here is forcing. If partner can double 3h, you may have a hard decision. If partner can bid 3n, I'd bid 4n to try for 6. If partner bids 3s or 4c, I'll bid 4d (again forcing). If partner bids 4d, I'll go right to 6. If partner bids 4h, I'd take that as both minors, and again bid 6d.
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#4 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2019-April-19, 00:19

Assuming that the double of 2S creates a force, passing here is clear. If partner can hit this, it will be bloody after we lead Ace and a heart. I have to confess that I dislike this method (which I believe to be fairly standard in NA. 3H puts enormous pressure on partner if he doesn’t have a penalty double. He has presumably already denied primary spade support, and we have far more than he will ever play us to have. This means that he needs to be prepared for this auction. I think the double of 2S should show reasonable defence against both of their suits, when known. Now I can double 3H myself, and lead trump.
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#5 User is offline   ahydra 

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Posted 2019-April-19, 00:24

View Postnige1, on 2019-April-18, 19:10, said:

Cyberyeti asks 'Any suggestions here, this was a bizarre board from my teams match today'
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
As usual, your choice is influenced by your agreements.
- For example. if partner's double suggests a desire to punish opponents, and creates a forcing-pass context, then you are delighted to pass.
- A more up-to-date treatment, recommended by John Matheson is that partner's double just suggests competitive values without a good long suit or primary support. With that agreement, a 3 change of suit at the 3-level should be forcing -- but to avoid any possible silly misunderstanding, a 3 cue-bid seems to express your values well.



Both those bids would be insufficient though :-(.

Must admit, I'm having problems picturing partner's hand. There seem to be too many hearts in the pack... perhaps partner just has some generic high cards and the other four diamonds, e.g. xx Qx Axxx QJxx. No idea, but honestly penalising them or playing 3NT is the most likely outcome given we've no fit and will be facing known bad breaks. If pass is forcing, I'll pass, else 3NT.

ahydra
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#6 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2019-April-19, 01:59

By our agreements, pass is not forcing, double is for penalties from either side.
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#7 User is offline   LBengtsson 

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Posted 2019-April-19, 04:10

View PostCyberyeti, on 2019-April-19, 01:59, said:

By our agreements, pass is not forcing, double is for penalties.


double penalty-responsive-takeout lol. 3nt bad breaks. better +200/500
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#8 User is offline   etha 

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Posted 2019-April-19, 06:29

For once I don't like your methods.
I'll bid 3nt if that is what I have to play.
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#9 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2019-April-19, 11:05

View Postahydra, on 2019-April-19, 00:24, said:

Both those bids would be insufficient though :-(.
Must admit, I'm having problems picturing partner's hand. There seem to be too many hearts in the pack... perhaps partner just has some generic high cards and the other four diamonds, e.g. xx Qx Axxx QJxx. No idea, but honestly penalising them or playing 3NT is the most likely outcome given we've no fit and will be facing known bad breaks. If pass is forcing, I'll pass, else 3NT.


Duh. Thank you Ahydra, for pointing out my mistake. Assuming that partner's double just showed a reasonable hand without primary support or a good long suit, then I like MikeH's double of 3. IMO this double should be competitive, not penalty.
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#10 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2019-April-19, 14:19

View Postnige1, on 2019-April-19, 11:05, said:

Duh. Thank you Ahydra, for pointing out my mistake. Assuming that partner's double just showed a reasonable hand without primary support or a good long suit, then I like MikeH's double of 3. IMO this double should be competitive, not penalty.


Try reading the OP, it says quite clearly in the comments on the auction that X is "ability to punish one or both suits" and in a later comment that X of 3 is for penalties. Basically after a double of a 2 suited bid we revert to penalty doubles, much as we do after a business redouble.

Partner could have a decent 5 card club suit without quite having the values to bid it and a 4 card holding in one of the reds, and won't have more than 2 spades.
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#11 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2019-April-19, 15:15

View PostCyberyeti, on 2019-April-19, 01:59, said:

By our agreements, pass is not forcing, double is for penalties from either side.


Presumably, partner will not pass with a penalty double of hearts? It is just about possible that partner has a penalty double of diamonds, but far more likely that partner has hearts and opps are in BIG trouble. I pass and await partner's double.

I am guessing that the reason for the post is that partner did indeed hold a four-card diamond suit? If so, opps have dodged a bullet!
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#12 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2019-April-19, 16:11

View PostTramticket, on 2019-April-19, 15:15, said:

Presumably, partner will not pass with a penalty double of hearts? It is just about possible that partner has a penalty double of diamonds, but far more likely that partner has hearts and opps are in BIG trouble. I pass and await partner's double.

I am guessing that the reason for the post is that partner did indeed hold a four-card diamond suit? If so, opps have dodged a bullet!


It's actually more stupid than that. Partner indeed has 4 diamonds, we have a combined 27 count, no game and can't (or didn't) beat 3. We gained 2 IMPs as team mates extracted 200 out of something. The best we can make is 4.

Deal is something like:



With J where it is, declarer has few problems in 3.
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