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How will this hands be bid ?

#21 User is offline   mtn1ms 

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Posted 2019-April-16, 19:42

Our 1 shows 5+ or 444 with 1 so we would open this 1 and respond 3 (showing limit raise in ). The bid would then go 3 (cue - A or K or singleton or void) 3 (cue - A or K or singleton or void) showing interest in 3N or 5. Opener would then bid 4 (cue - A or K or singleton or void) and responder would cue 4. Opener would cue 4 and with his 2 doubletons, knowing we have 1st and 2nd round control of and and a control in responder would bid 6. Without the A responder would bid 4 and opener would bid 5.

So our bidding would be:
1-3
3-3
4-4
4-6

Without interest or without an available cue over 3 responder could bid 5 or 3N with suitable hand.
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#22 User is offline   mtn1ms 

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Posted 2019-April-16, 19:42

Our 1 shows 5+ or 444 with 1 so we would open this 1 and respond 3 (showing limit raise in ). The bid would then go 3 (cue - A or K or singleton or void) 3 (cue - A or K or singleton or void) showing interest in 3N or 5. Opener would then bid 4 (cue - A or K or singleton or void) and responder would cue 4. Opener would cue 4 and with his 2 doubletons, knowing we have 1st and 2nd round control of and and a control in responder would bid 6. Without the A responder would bid 4 and opener would bid 5.

So our bidding would be:
1-3
3-3
4-4
4-6

Without interest or without an available cue over 3 responder could bid 5 or 3N with suitable hand.
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#23 User is offline   GrahamJson 

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Posted 2019-April-17, 11:32

With my regular partner we play a jump to 3NT on the second round as showing a shortage in responder’s suit, so the bidding could go 1D-2C-3NT. It might then continue 4D- cue bids...-6D. (The 3NT bid also shows a good suit and good values).

On the other hand it’s a borderline 2C bid and if responder bids 1NT all roads lead to 3NT.
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#24 User is offline   mrt2000 

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Posted 2019-April-17, 12:37

View Postnige1, on 2019-April-15, 11:55, said:


MsJeniffer's deal is of the kind that authorities might flag in an effort to diagnose and prosecute collusive cheating.
Bidding double-dummy, cheats might well reach 6
Admittedly, rarely, a lucky innocent pair might also bid and make the slam.
But evidence of consistent success on such flagged deals, would corroborate cheating suspicions.



I have seldom heard such nonsense in all my life. Although I admit that both hands have to take very optimistic views of their holdings it is a million miles away from anything even remotely close to cheating. My partner of choice and I, playing 2/1 GF, could bid the hands as follows:
1 - 1NT
3 - 3 (Cue bid agreeing )
3 (Q) - 4 (No control)
4 (Q) - 4 (Q)
6 - P

Not so hard really was it?
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#25 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2019-April-17, 13:16

View Postmrt2000, on 2019-April-17, 12:37, said:

I have seldom heard such nonsense in all my life. Although I admit that both hands have to take very optimistic views of their holdings it is a million miles away from anything even remotely close to cheating. My partner of choice and I, playing 2/1 GF, could bid the hands as follows:
1 - 1NT
3 - 3 (Cue bid agreeing )
3 (Q) - 4 (No control)
4 (Q) - 4 (Q)
6 - P

Not so hard really was it?


It's hard because at MPs if partner doesn't have a heart cue or has 2 losing or potentially losing clubs, you may struggle to get out in a number of NT you can make, and end up playing 5 for a bottom once you blast past 3N. There are lots of variances from the actual hands which make the slam bad with the same auction
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#26 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2019-April-17, 13:53

View Postmrt2000, on 2019-April-17, 12:37, said:

I have seldom heard such nonsense in all my life. Although I admit that both hands have to take very optimistic views of their holdings it is a million miles away from anything even remotely close to cheating. My partner of choice and I, playing 2/1 GF, could bid the hands as follows:
1 - 1NT
3 - 3 (Cue bid agreeing )
3 (Q) - 4 (No control)
4 (Q) - 4 (Q)
6 - P

Not so hard really was it?


How would your auction differ if North had one more card in either major?
Alderaan delenda est
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#27 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2019-April-17, 14:01

View Postmrt2000, on 2019-April-17, 12:37, said:

I have seldom heard such nonsense in all my life. Although I admit that both hands have to take very optimistic views of their holdings it is a million miles away from anything even remotely close to cheating. My partner of choice and I, playing 2/1 GF, could bid the hands as follows:
1 - 1NT
3 - 3 (Cue bid agreeing )
3 (Q) - 4 (No control)
4 (Q) - 4 (Q)
6 - P

Not so hard really was it?


Great bidding looking at both hands. If I look at all 4 hands, I can also bid to contracts that depend on very lucky breaks, and avoid contracts that go down on bad or awful breaks.
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#28 User is offline   nullve 

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Posted 2019-April-17, 14:03

View Postmrt2000, on 2019-April-17, 12:37, said:

I have seldom heard such nonsense in all my life. Although I admit that both hands have to take very optimistic views of their holdings it is a million miles away from anything even remotely close to cheating. My partner of choice and I, playing 2/1 GF, could bid the hands as follows:
1 - 1NT
3 - 3 (Cue bid agreeing )
3 (Q) - 4 (No control)
4 (Q) - 4 (Q)
6 - P

Not so hard really was it?

No, it's not so hard if opps' silence convinces North that South has 0-1 clubs and not e.g. Kx. But North might feel more confident about that after

1-1N (NAT unBAL or 20-22 BAL \\ 0-12, NAT)
2-2 ("16-18"*, any \\ GF relay)
2N-3 (4+ H or 1-suited \\ relay)
3-.... (1-suited \\ ---)

in my system: Here are are 100 random deals consistent with South's bidding (modulo finer points of hand evaluation) and North having the above hand:

Spoiler

Now take a look at the EW cards on the deals where South has 2-3 clubs. Don't you think opps would interfere over 1 or 1N on the vast majority of those deals?

Btw, I believe my auction at IMPs would continue

....-3 (--- \\ relay)
4-4 (3361 \\ key card ask with diamonds agreed)
4-4N (even # of key cards \\ trump Q ask)
5N-6 (trump Q, K, K, no Q \\ contract)
P.

It's harder at MPs, of course, since belly-landing in 5 after e.g.

....-4N (--- \\ trump Q ask)
5-.... (no trump Q \\ ---)

is not really an option.

* or more precisely: meets the rule of 25 (like the unbalanced part of a Precision 1 opening), but not the rule of 28
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#29 User is offline   Lorneg 

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Posted 2019-April-17, 14:49

test
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#30 User is online   rmnka447 

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Posted 2019-April-17, 15:01

Playing 2/1 with strong NT, 5cM, I think

1 - 1 NT
3 - 3 NT

would be most probable.

Playing K-S (2/1, weak NT, 5cM), after 1 , responder has a choice of 2 bids -- 2 C which isn't a GF or 2 NT. 1 NT is defined as only 5-8 in this system to provide an escape with a poor hand with no 4cM opposite a "strong NT" type hand. Whichever response is chosen again probably leads to 3 NT at MPS.

Probing for a slam that makes because of a perfect mesh of the hands might be an academic exercise, but probably isn't going to happen in the real world.
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