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Take the money?

#1 User is online   ahydra 

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Posted 2019-March-13, 04:44

IMPs, vul vs not



Your system is weak NT 5cM, with a "clubs or balanced" approach so 1D promises 5 unless 1444 or 4441. Opps play Acol with three weak twos. Partner, erm... likes to bid a lot, particularly in competitive situations, shall we say.

Do you go for the vul game in clubs (or diamonds? or hearts?!) or just take the money?

ahydra
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#2 User is offline   Kungsgeten 

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Posted 2019-March-13, 05:15

I would not pass (unless partner's double is clearly defined as PENALTY), but I'm not sure what partner could have. I think 4NT is a good alternative, but perhaps then partner will bid 5D with too many hands.
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#3 User is offline   apollo1201 

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Posted 2019-March-13, 13:39

I guess partner has « some values » in a semi-balanced hand (with more distribution he would have bid 4NT or 5 something). Not sure we have more than an 8-cd fit. He could be 6322 or 6331 or 5422 or 5431 with 2 or 3 spades. 5332 strong NT maybe?

Of course xx AQx AKxxxx Kx often makes slam, but he would probably bid the same with KQx QJ AJxxx KJx where 5C could be uneasy to handle (even if we often get a good lead).

From what the OP says, opener could be a king or queen lighter (or heavier?) and it becomes less appealing to bid more. I wouldn’t even convince opps to save in a non-vulnerable 5S.

Overall it is probably better to bid as we get 600+ more often than -100 vs. +300-500, but it is close. Maybe partner’s spirit and mood in the last few boards could help. Or the speed on placing the X card on the table🤣
Anyway, if we decide to bid, 4NT should get the message of 2 places to play, and I trust partner to have H tolerance if he bids 5D on that. Seems we are playing bridge over trouble water.
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#4 User is offline   BillPatch 

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Posted 2019-March-13, 14:54

With rebiddable clubs, and non-rebiddable hearts, I would try 5. If partner cannot tolerate clubs, I will then be able to trust his choice or red suits.
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#5 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2019-March-13, 17:38

I pass.

Now, of course there are hands on which we can make 600 or more, and even hands where we are -590. However, being fully aware of this, the decision is not even particularly close.

Partner had options, since our negative double did not create a force here.

So, summarizing the main points:

1. Partner could and should bid 4N with a good 4=6 reds or 6=4 minors, pulling 5C to 5D with the former.

2. Partner could and often would bid 5D with a great hand and long diamonds

3. Partner could and would bid 5C with 5-5 or better in the minors

4. Partner's most likely hand is a strong 1N with 5 or 6 diamonds

5. Some opps are known to overcall on chunky 4 card suits, especially in spades and at this heat

6. While rare, some opps are known to (ill-advisedly) jump to 4S at this heat with shape and a 4 card fit (this is so rare that I give it virtually no weight, but since it can happen, I am listing it)


All of this means that one can usefully assume partner has a hand approximating a 15+ balanced or semi-balanced hand, usually with 2 spades, occasionally 3.

We have no known fit. We almost surely do have an 8 card fit and maybe even a 9 card heart fit, but we can't get there from here, other than by guesswork.

Even if we could, opting to play a 5-3 fit at the 5-level on a preemptive auction with maybe only 24-25 hcp in our combined hands is not my idea of sensible bidding.

In short: when the opps try to push you around by jamming the auction, and you don't have an assured good fit....take the plus. Btw, being told that, for example, bidding was the winning action would leave me very very unimpressed. Learning how to deal with these auctions is part of the learning to be a good imp player. Taking the loss of imps when bidding would have worked out better, and not letting that affect you, is also part of becoming a good imp player. Good players as teammates will understand.

I am far from the best imp player (but I am a pretty good one), and if a truly great player were to post here with a rebuttal, I'd read with interest. But for my money, bidding here is chasing moonbeams. Once in a while one catches one, and no doubt the feeling is great. Me? I take the money unless I think bidding is odds-on to be better.

Finally, the notion that partner will pull 5C with only a doubleton is silly. How would one bid, if one were pulling the double, with a 6 card club suit? 1=5=1=6? And if one did that, why would one then pull partner's 5D to 5H? As noted, partner could well be 2=3=6=2. And of course 5C will often be 1=4=2=6. No, if one is going to pull, then pull to 4N. Partner will bid 5C with 3+ and 5D with most other hands, but 5H with 4 hearts.
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#6 User is online   ahydra 

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Posted 2019-March-14, 02:06

View Postmikeh, on 2019-March-13, 17:38, said:

Btw, being told that, for example, bidding was the winning action would leave me very very unimpressed.


Don't worry, you won't be upset this time :).



I opted to bid 5C and it looked like I'd struck gold (well, 39% pure gold anyway) when partner showed up with 5, but West just cashed out and claimed one off with the trumps. Unfortunately 4S is trivially down (though could easily be making, just swap a diamond for a heart in EW)

My logic was, the expected outcome in 4S is 100 (perhaps the occasional 300 but also the occasional -590) as partner is clearly not doubling on a stack of trumps, and there are a large number of minimum hands that give play for 5C. I'd have bid 4NT if I was sure partner wouldn't take it as RKC... I've only just managed to bring her round to the idea that 4C can be natural.

Looking at it I think partner should be passing really. SK is useless, and who knows how many diamonds are cashing.

ahydra
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#7 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2019-March-14, 18:07

View Postahydra, on 2019-March-14, 02:06, said:

Don't worry, you won't be upset this time :).



I opted to bid 5C and it looked like I'd struck gold (well, 39% pure gold anyway) when partner showed up with 5, but West just cashed out and claimed one off with the trumps. Unfortunately 4S is trivially down (though could easily be making, just swap a diamond for a heart in EW)

My logic was, the expected outcome in 4S is 100 (perhaps the occasional 300 but also the occasional -590) as partner is clearly not doubling on a stack of trumps, and there are a large number of minimum hands that give play for 5C. I'd have bid 4NT if I was sure partner wouldn't take it as RKC... I've only just managed to bring her round to the idea that 4C can be natural.

Looking at it I think partner should be passing really. SK is useless, and who knows how many diamonds are cashing.

ahydra

Your partner is a very bad player. Doubling with that hand is idiotic. Especially playing a weak notrump style, where the standard way of showing a strong notrump in competitive auctions, with no good fit yet found, is to double and bring partner back into the auction.
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