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Another monster hand

#1 User is offline   661_Pete 

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Posted 2019-March-09, 13:21

An object lesson in the "don't get too excited" genre. Hands like this don't come my way very often.

We play 2 is GF except in the sequence 2 - 2 - 2NT.

I was rather tempted to open 6 but managed to stop myself in time! Anyway my eventual 6 was far from sound, a big risk.

I was hoping my partner was going to show up with two hearts and the Q. When the dummy went down it was evident I was in the wrong suit - at least the diamonds were safe but I had to play ("pray", more like) for a 3-3 break in hearts. My luck held out and the slam made :) .

Anyway I felt we ought to have at least a top or joint top in this, players are reluctant to bid Grand in our pairs MPs events, and 6= beats 6+1. But no! One pair did indeed reach 7 and we ended up with just an average.

So now I'm wondering how they bid their 7. They're one of the best and most experienced pairs in the club and they wouldn't have bid wildly or recklessly. Doesn't look easy to reach - this is often the problem when all the strength is in one hand.
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#2 User is online   TylerE 

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Posted 2019-March-09, 13:48

Rebid 3 rather than 3. Show 4 more cards in your hand, not just 1, especially with the not being great for play opposite shortness.
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#3 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2019-March-09, 15:21

Rebid 3 .

It's easy to get fixated on your long suit with such a big hand. But holding a 2nd suit, there's no reason not to tell partner what you have and get his/her input on where to play.

After 3 , if partner doesn't help decide further what suit to play in, you'll likely still be able to bid 4 . But occasionally, like in this hand, partner will have the hand to play in your second suit. The only thing you've given away is a little more information to your opponents about your hand. Playing in when it's right is worth more.
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#4 User is online   pescetom 

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Posted 2019-March-09, 15:33

You chose probably the worst of the possible slams, with diamonds and even spades looking safer.

As already said, 3 would be a better rebid. Then partner bids 4 and after that it's all down hill.
At it's simplest, 4NT RKCB followed by 5 or 5 to indicate no keycards, 5 to ask for Queen and 5NT to say yes but no kings, then 6 corrected to 7.
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#5 User is online   TylerE 

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Posted 2019-March-09, 16:09

View Postpescetom, on 2019-March-09, 15:33, said:

As already said, 3 would be a better rebid. Then partner bids 4 and after that it's all down hill.


I'd rebid 5 and not 4. Shows a hand with 0 quick tricks, with a great fit. Perfect picture bid.

4 would invite a cuebidding sequence.
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#6 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2019-March-09, 16:31

By all means describe more of your hand and rebid 3 and not 3
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#7 User is offline   apollo1201 

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Posted 2019-March-10, 01:02

Were you afraid partner would misplay 7D?🤣

More seriously, as all others said, rebid 3D, to save space and describe your hand. Bridge is a partnership game and your hand really lacks the quality to already decide, whatever partner shows, to play in H. And let alone at which level.
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#8 User is offline   661_Pete 

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Posted 2019-March-10, 05:18

I agree with all the above - I should have bid 3. My partner (who'd be playing the hand) would probably have raised to 5 - then it would be down to me whether to bid 6 or 7. Knowing my past form, I'd have probably got it wrong :unsure: !

As it happens, the 7 contract was played by that pair's South. Not that it would have made any difference. I'm guessing they were using Benji - which we weren't.
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#9 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2019-March-10, 06:48

View Post661_Pete, on 2019-March-10, 05:18, said:

My partner (who'd be playing the hand) would probably have raised to 5


Why? You are in a game forcing auction, so why wouldn't partner bid 4D and allow room for cue bidding and ace asking?
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#10 User is offline   apollo1201 

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Posted 2019-March-10, 07:17

View PostTramticket, on 2019-March-10, 06:48, said:

Why? You are in a game forcing auction, so why wouldn't partner bid 4D and allow room for cue bidding and ace asking?

Big 5-cd fit (in case S rebid a 3-cd suit?), no controls or useful honors, I wouldn’t blame partner for jumping (and ruling out 4H at the same time).
I’d like 4D to be really constructive (with a high H honor or a black A had they not been already in S’s hand).
If that big fit is all partner needs, they are always free to bid slam.
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#11 User is online   pescetom 

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Posted 2019-March-10, 07:34

View Postapollo1201, on 2019-March-10, 07:17, said:

Big 5-cd fit (in case S rebid a 3-cd suit?), no controls or useful honors, I wouldn’t blame partner for jumping (and ruling out 4H at the same time).


Has a hearts control, and the Q trumps is usually considered a useful honour.
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#12 User is offline   CutyDino 

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Posted 2019-March-10, 09:11

View Post661_Pete, on 2019-March-09, 13:21, said:

An object lesson in the "don't get too excited" genre. Hands like this don't come my way very often.

We play 2 is GF except in the sequence 2 - 2 - 2NT.

I was rather tempted to open 6 but managed to stop myself in time! Anyway my eventual 6 was far from sound, a big risk.

I was hoping my partner was going to show up with two hearts and the Q. When the dummy went down it was evident I was in the wrong suit - at least the diamonds were safe but I had to play ("pray", more like) for a 3-3 break in hearts. My luck held out and the slam made :) .

Anyway I felt we ought to have at least a top or joint top in this, players are reluctant to bid Grand in our pairs MPs events, and 6= beats 6+1. But no! One pair did indeed reach 7 and we ended up with just an average.

So now I'm wondering how they bid their 7. They're one of the best and most experienced pairs in the club and they wouldn't have bid wildly or recklessly. Doesn't look easy to reach - this is often the problem when all the strength is in one hand.

Playing Precision or The Martens System, a very easy grand:
S N
1C 1D
1H 1S
2C 3D
3H 3S
4C 4S
5C 5H
7D pass

Explanations of each bid:
1C 15+Balanced OR 17+Any
1D 0-8, not 7-8 points if 4H/4S
1H Natural or any forcing
1S 0-4
2C Game forcing
3D Either 5 card diamonds with at least A/K/Q (cannot be ace if you count ace as 5 hcp) or 6+Diamonds without promissing an honour
3H Natural 5+Hearts
3S No 3 Hearts, Either exactly 4 Spades or exactly Spades without an honour
4C Cue bid, either spade fit or diamond fit
4S Specifying spade suit - exactly 5 Spades without an honour, no 2 hearts
5C Forcing a cue bid from partner
5D NO VOID HEARTS, negative cue bid, because wrong NT hand
7D With all the information, a very safe contract!

See? Very easy bidding.
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#13 User is online   pescetom 

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Posted 2019-March-10, 09:30

View PostCutyDino, on 2019-March-10, 09:11, said:

Playing Precision or The Martens System, a very easy grand:
S N
1C 1D
1H 1S
2C 3D
3H 3S
4C 4S
5C 5H
7D pass

Explanations of each bid:
1C 15+Balanced OR 17+Any
1D 0-8, not 7-8 points if 4H/4S
1H Natural or any forcing
1S 0-4
2C Game forcing
3D Either 5 card diamonds with at least A/K/Q (cannot be ace if you count ace as 5 hcp) or 6+Diamonds without promissing an honour
3H Natural 5+Hearts
3S No 3 Hearts, Either exactly 4 Spades or exactly Spades without an honour
4C Cue bid, either spade fit or diamond fit
4S Specifying spade suit - exactly 5 Spades without an honour, no 2 hearts
5C Forcing a cue bid from partner
5D NO VOID HEARTS, negative cue bid, because wrong NT hand
7D With all the information, a very safe contract!

See? Very easy bidding.


Not sure I see clearly.
Is North's last bid 5H (as above) or 5D (as below)?
And could you please clarify "NO VOID HEARTS, negative cue bid, because wrong NT hand"?
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#14 User is offline   Left2Right 

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Posted 2019-March-10, 10:27

Dovetailing with most of the other comments, let's recite the rule for perspective.

"Minor suits do not become second class citizens unless and until one partner or the other can give up on the possibility of a minor suit slam."

This adds to the strain of patience (a la music, not muscle) 8-)
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#15 User is offline   dsLawsd 

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Posted 2019-March-10, 14:51

All good.
Now suppose partner had bid 3 instead of a nebulous 2? Would that bid turn on any lights?!
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#16 User is online   GrahamJson 

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Posted 2019-March-10, 15:17

How about 2C-2D-2H-2S-3D-5D-7D?
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#17 User is offline   CutyDino 

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Posted 2019-March-11, 06:14

View Postpescetom, on 2019-March-10, 09:30, said:

Not sure I see clearly.
Is North's last bid 5H (as above) or 5D (as below)?
And could you please clarify "NO VOID HEARTS, negative cue bid, because wrong NT hand"?

Oh, yes it is 5, I must have not changed the bid above.
Clarification of the 5 bid:
1) You have shown no more than 4 points (ace is 5)
2) You have shown exactly 5 diamond with Q or K
3) You have shown 5 bad spades without Q or K, can have J
4) You have shown that you have either 1 or no hearts
5) With this bid you specify that you have exactly 1 heart.
6) If you had another cue bid, you would have bid that, meaning that you don't have a club cue bid (as you cannot have the spade cue bid - have shown not to have K of spades, Neither do you have a heart void - would have bid 5H
7) In any precision system, there is an agreement that the weak hand ONLY plays NT if the strong hand has made a very clear NT transfer. Because of this, 4NT is an impossible bid (usually negative cue from the weak hand)
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#18 User is offline   fluff 

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Posted 2019-March-11, 09:20

Playing Kokish relay, this would be our sequence :

2♣ 2♦ (no A, at most 1 king)
2♥ (relay to 2♠​) 2♠​
3♦ (shows h+d) 4♦
4♥ (KCB for d) 4NT (1430)
5♣ (Queen?) 6♦
7♦

2♥ show either one suites h, or 2 suites with h, or 25+ balanced. In last case, opener rebids 2nt after 2♠​.

fluff
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#19 User is online   GrahamJson 

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Posted 2019-March-11, 09:54

View Postfluff, on 2019-March-11, 09:20, said:

Playing Kokish relay, this would be our sequence :

2♣ 2♦ (no A, at most 1 king)
2♥ (relay to 2♠​) 2♠​
3♦ (shows h+d) 4♦
4♥ (KCB for d) 4NT (1430)
5♣ (Queen?) 6♦
7♦

2♥ show either one suites h, or 2 suites with h, or 25+ balanced. In last case, opener rebids 2nt after 2♠​.

fluff


I’m not sure that I like the idea of 4H being KCB in this sequence. Responder has promised nothing, so shouldn’t 4H suggest a place to play with, say something like Kx AKQxxx KQxx A?
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#20 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2019-March-11, 11:02

SIRS,playing Standard our bidding went 2C-2D-2H-2S-3D-4D-4NT(RKC)-5D(NOACE)-5S(DQ ask AND SPIRAL)-6C(DQ BUT NO OUTSIDE KING)-7D. It is much easier playing SUPER PRECISION but that is besides point.
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