BBO Discussion Forums: Explaining ahead - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Explaining ahead

#1 User is offline   pescetom 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,463
  • Joined: 2014-February-18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Italy

Posted 2019-February-27, 14:37

The consensus here seems to be that in explaining a bid one should not in general describe developments that may ensue, but limit the explanation to the meaning of the actual bid made.

What about the case where there is only one possible development, but which could not easily be foreseen and which subsequently opens up quite different scenarios?

For instance, we play that after 1X-1Y-1Z a bid of 2NT is entirely artificial and obliges opener to bid 3, over which responder can either pass or make a natural bid which lengthens suit Y and forces to game showing slam interest.

The bids of 2NT and 3 bid are of course alerted, but how should each be explained?
Just "Artificial, obliges me to bid 3" and then "can be passed, but any reply is natural and game forcing with slam interest"?
0

#2 User is offline   HardVector 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 218
  • Joined: 2018-May-28

Posted 2019-February-27, 16:08

View Postpescetom, on 2019-February-27, 14:37, said:

The consensus here seems to be that in explaining a bid one should not in general describe developments that may ensue, but limit the explanation to the meaning of the actual bid made.

What about the case where there is only one possible development, but which could not easily be foreseen and which subsequently opens up quite different scenarios?

For instance, we play that after 1X-1Y-1Z a bid of 2NT is entirely artificial and obliges opener to bid 3, over which responder can either pass or make a natural bid which lengthens suit Y and forces to game showing slam interest.

The bids of 2NT and 3 bid are of course alerted, but how should each be explained?
Just "Artificial, obliges me to bid 3" and then "can be passed, but any reply is natural and game forcing with slam interest"?

I would describe 2n as "relay to 3c, either to play or game forcing with interest in some slam".
1

#3 User is offline   blackshoe 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 16,396
  • Joined: 2006-April-17
  • Location:Rochester, NY

Posted 2019-February-27, 17:45

"2NT is a puppet to 3."

"3 is a relay allowing me to further describe my hand."

If they don't understand what all this means, they can ask for amplification.
--------------------
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
0

#4 User is offline   pran 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,826
  • Joined: 2009-September-14
  • Location:Ski, Norway

Posted 2019-February-28, 01:28

View Postpescetom, on 2019-February-27, 14:37, said:

The consensus here seems to be that in explaining a bid one should not in general describe developments that may ensue, but limit the explanation to the meaning of the actual bid made.
[.....]

Law 20F1 said:

During the auction and before the final pass any player may request, at his own turn to call, an explanation of the opponents’ auction. He is entitled to know about calls actually made, about relevant alternative calls available that were not made, and about inferences from the choice of action where these are matters of partnership understanding. [...]

0

#5 User is online   Cyberyeti 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,899
  • Joined: 2009-July-13
  • Location:England

Posted 2019-February-28, 03:42

View PostHardVector, on 2019-February-27, 16:08, said:

I would describe 2n as "relay to 3c, either to play or game forcing with interest in some slam".


This is about right, although isn't it a puppet rather than a relay ? "puppet to 3, weak with clubs, or a variety of strong hands, GF with slam interest"
0

#6 User is offline   barmar 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Admin
  • Posts: 18,192
  • Joined: 2004-August-21
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2019-February-28, 09:55

View PostCyberyeti, on 2019-February-28, 03:42, said:

This is about right, although isn't it a puppet rather than a relay ?

Despite what bridge glossaries say, a large segment of the bridge population uses the word "relay" to mean "puppet".

I think the bridge lexicographers are being really stubborn in not including this definition in their dictionaries. This usage has been around for ages. When it's followed by "to" there's no ambiguity, as that form isn't used when referring to relay asking bids.

#7 User is offline   pescetom 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,463
  • Joined: 2014-February-18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Italy

Posted 2019-February-28, 10:36

View PostCyberyeti, on 2019-February-28, 03:42, said:

"puppet to 3, weak with clubs, or a variety of strong hands, GF with slam interest"


I find this clear and precise as a description, thanks.

My main concern however was that I might be accused of gratuitously reminding partner about ensuing developments (in the name of Law 20F1).
0

#8 User is offline   pescetom 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,463
  • Joined: 2014-February-18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Italy

Posted 2019-February-28, 10:59

View Postbarmar, on 2019-February-28, 09:55, said:

Despite what bridge glossaries say, a large segment of the bridge population uses the word "relay" to mean "puppet".

I think the bridge lexicographers are being really stubborn in not including this definition in their dictionaries. This usage has been around for ages. When it's followed by "to" there's no ambiguity, as that form isn't used when referring to relay asking bids.


There are also people who call this 2NT a "transfer", come to that.
I'm in favour of being stubborn here, bridge is hard enough to learn without multiple meanings for technical terms.
Unfortunately "puppet to..." gets very blank looks in Italy, hence the "obliges me to bid..." phrase.
0

Share this topic:


Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users