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Raptor doubled

#1 User is offline   e552787 

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Posted 2019-February-27, 13:22

Hi,

Imps, both nonvul, D(E) you hold as N

986
T8754
8
A654

the bidding:

1H 1NT* x ???

Raptor: 10-16 4cH with 5+-minor
do you bid?

Yours Wolfgang
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#2 User is offline   ahydra 

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Posted 2019-February-27, 14:38

Wait, the 1NT shows hearts after the opening bid was hearts? How many hearts in the deck?

Do we have agreements for this situation e.g. what is XX, which bids are p/c

ahydra
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#3 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2019-February-27, 15:30


e552787 'imps'

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Depends on agreements. On 2nd thoughts. I rank

1. 2 = NAT Opponents might be inhibited from leaving 2X, because it's game.
2. XX = SOS. What's your minor? (by agreement). But if you take a slow route you're more likely to be doubled.
3. Pass = NAT. A suggestion to play in 1NX (by agreement)..
4. 2 = S/O: To play in 2s. If doubled, you can try 2.

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#4 User is online   pescetom 

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Posted 2019-February-27, 15:52

View Postahydra, on 2019-February-27, 14:38, said:

Wait, the 1NT shows hearts after the opening bid was hearts? How many hearts in the deck?


I think it shows 4-card spades not hearts.
I also think this is a good explanation of why Raptor never caught on B-)
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#5 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2019-February-27, 16:04

View Poste552787, on 2019-February-27, 13:22, said:

Raptor: 10-16 4cH with 5+-minor
do you bid?


Standard meaning is 4 spades, 5+ card minor after 1 opening bid.
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#6 User is offline   HardVector 

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Posted 2019-February-27, 20:15

I'm tempted to just go ahead and bid 2s, but partner may have clubs, so I could understand 2c. I'm expecting 2d, though, whereupon I will bid 2s. The problem with the second way, is that the opps are going to communicate via doubling things they like, and the slow way is likely to get a double of spades out of them. If you bid 2s right away, they may bid and save us from having to play this mess, or not double.
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#7 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2019-February-27, 21:12

Probably the best agreement is here that 2 is P/C while redouble asks overcaller to bid clubs. If you don't think you need to be able to play 1NTx, you could also do something similar to the runout after they double our 1NT opening.

Anyway, I make whatever call asks for overcaller's suit and if it is diamonds I correct to spades.

Pass is also an option.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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#8 User is offline   HardVector 

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Posted 2019-February-27, 21:37

So, I didn't notice the double. I've never played this convention, don't really understand why you would want to, but it seems to me that the double should change your normal meanings. Now 2c/2d/2s should all show definite suits, If a minor, they should be 6 carders. Pass should replace the meaning of 2c if rho had passed.
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#9 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2019-February-27, 21:40

View Posthelene_t, on 2019-February-27, 21:12, said:

Probably the best agreement is here that 2 is P/C while redouble asks overcaller to bid clubs. If you don't think you need to be able to play 1NTx, you could also do something similar to the runout after they double our 1NT opening.
Anyway, I make whatever call asks for overcaller's suit and if it is diamonds I correct to spades.
Pass is also an option.

Helene_t's suggestion seems sensible -- to keep your normal agreements but, like a Judo wrestler, use opponent's attack to create extra options e.g. after (1) 1N (X) ?

  • 2 = P/C (Normal Raptor meaning)
  • 2/2/2 = S/O. to play (Normal Raptor meaning).
  • XX = TFR to play in 2.
  • Pass = NAT willing to play in 1NX.

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#10 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2019-February-27, 21:56

View PostHardVector, on 2019-February-27, 21:37, said:

So, I didn't notice the double. I've never played this convention, don't really understand why you would want to, but it seems to me that the double should change your normal meanings. Now 2c/2d/2s should all show definite suits, If a minor, they should be 6 carders. Pass should replace the meaning of 2c if rho had passed.


Kit Woolsey seems to recommend a Raptor meaning (4+M & 5+m) for
  • 1N overcall of nebulous (could be short) 1 or 1
  • Double of opponent's strong 1N

Then AFAIR
  • 2 = P/C for m.
  • 2 = ASK for M.
  • 2M = S/O to play.

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#11 User is offline   maartenxq 

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Posted 2019-February-28, 04:44

I presume the dbl shows and minor. That being said, I check our agreements. If pass is business I bid 2 , pass or correct. I correct 2 to 2 .
I pass is forcing I do that and proceed likewise. I is a moot point if I have to compete up to 3 if parnter turns out to have them.

Maarten Baltussen
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