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Protocol - non-skip jump

#21 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2019-February-19, 14:36

View Postpran, on 2019-February-18, 17:04, said:

Yes, I am aware that several jurisdictions hold LHO responsible for timing the delay.
We have in our regulation that this responsibility is with the skip bidder who has nothing else to consider after he has made his skip bid.
LHO may need all the 10 seconds he is allotted to consider his own call and shall not be burdened with timing the delay in addition to this.

Makes sense, I think our own regulation is poorly written in this respect.
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#22 User is offline   sanst 

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Posted 2019-February-20, 03:43

View Postbarmar, on 2019-February-19, 10:22, said:

It seems like the questioner is trying to find out whether the 4 bidder intended to jump or misbid because he misread the auction. A jump presumably has a different meaning than 4 over 4.

Sometimes UI is an unfortunate result of actions you feel are necessary (not to mention some that are legally required).

AFAIK there’s nothing in the Laws that allows you to find out whether a call or play was intended or a mistake. Law 75C implicitly states so IMO. If screens are in use, S asks W about the agreement without E knowing that - well, that’s the idea, anyway - so nobody will find out what it was till the board is played or the hand of the dummy is on the table.
As I wrote before, a misbid or any other mistake by your opponents might damage you, but there’s no redress. And more often it’s advantageous to the NOS.
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#23 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2019-February-20, 09:19

Consider the other way around: the player puts out the STOP card and then makes a non-jump bid. I think many would draw attention to the inconsistency.

#24 User is offline   pran 

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Posted 2019-February-20, 12:51

View Postbarmar, on 2019-February-20, 09:19, said:

Consider the other way around: the player puts out the STOP card and then makes a non-jump bid. I think many would draw attention to the inconsistency.

When STOP was originally introduced in Norway it was to be used not only with skip bids, but also (if I remember correct) with "weak" 1NT opening bids.

What happened?
Pretty soon you could see system declaration for 1NT opening bids: "Alone: 15-17 HCP, together with STOP: 12-14 HCP".

As the chairman of the Norwegian Law Committee told me: It was completely impossible to make these players understand that this was abuse of the STOP procedure, so we simply had to delete STOP for unusually weak 1NT opening bids altogether!
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#25 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2019-February-21, 10:41

View Postpran, on 2019-February-20, 12:51, said:

When STOP was originally introduced in Norway it was to be used not only with skip bids, but also (if I remember correct) with "weak" 1NT opening bids.

What happened?
Pretty soon you could see system declaration for 1NT opening bids: "Alone: 15-17 HCP, together with STOP: 12-14 HCP".

As the chairman of the Norwegian Law Committee told me: It was completely impossible to make these players understand that this was abuse of the STOP procedure, so we simply had to delete STOP for unusually weak 1NT opening bids altogether!

Even without that kind of declaration, this procedure seems inherently problematic. If you play variable NT, you couldn't avoid using the STOP card to remind your partner of which range you had.

#26 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2019-February-21, 10:50

View Postbarmar, on 2019-February-21, 10:41, said:

Even without that kind of declaration, this procedure seems inherently problematic. If you play variable NT, you couldn't avoid using the STOP card to remind your partner of which range you had.


Reminds me of a pair from round here who only played occasionally, and played weak and strong no trumps at different periods of the partnership, eventually having forgotten many times what they were playing, they agreed they were playing 12-17 the first time they opened one in a session, and then whatever that one was, they'd keep to it for the rest of the evening, would be so much easier with the stop procedure :)
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#27 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2019-February-21, 15:32

View PostCyberyeti, on 2019-February-21, 10:50, said:

Reminds me of a pair from round here who only played occasionally, and played weak and strong no trumps at different periods of the partnership, eventually having forgotten many times what they were playing, they agreed they were playing 12-17 the first time they opened one in a session, and then whatever that one was, they'd keep to it for the rest of the evening, would be so much easier with the stop procedure :)


Reminds me of a club near here which has two generations of bidding boxes, the cards of which have somehow mixed to the point where almost every box has some doubles with a large X and some with a small x. I'm a trustful soul and never look to see which is used for takeout and which is used for penalty :)
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#28 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2019-February-22, 11:06

View Postpescetom, on 2019-February-21, 15:32, said:

Reminds me of a club near here which has two generations of bidding boxes, the cards of which have somehow mixed to the point where almost every box has some doubles with a large X and some with a small x. I'm a trustful soul and never look to see which is used for takeout and which is used for penalty :)

You'd probably have to notice someone pull out a double card, then put it back and pull out a different double card.

And pity the player who discovers that their bidding box doesn't have the right kind of double card.

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