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Quantitative??

#1 User is offline   zhasbeen 

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Posted 2019-February-08, 18:05

Yet another lesson on how to be a terrible partner, courtesy of GIB:

http://tinyurl.com/y6ahsz7b

I don't know about you guys, but pass was a no-brainer for me. I have a 4-3-3-3 20-pointer with mediocre spots. I got 21% for passing.
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#2 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2019-February-08, 21:53

Quantitative with a 6-card suit. Only a true point counter would pull this.
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#3 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2019-February-09, 07:25

If N bids 3, how is S supposed to reply in GIBberish?
3NT obligatory relay waiting for suit, or 4 showing 4-card?
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#4 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2019-February-09, 09:10

3 is minor suit Stayman.
I think this is a problem in hand evaluation which Gib doesn't do it just counts points.
Hand evaluation says this hand good enough for 6 if not off 2 Aces so stuck with Gerber
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#5 User is offline   zhasbeen 

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Posted 2019-February-10, 00:07

This 4NT bid is in the critical error category--not just a minor misbid. Even with a square 12 GIB should skip the quantitative and just bid 6 (20-21 + 12 = 32-33). With the diamond suit as it is, it should be considering a grand.
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#6 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2019-February-10, 03:54

View Postzhasbeen, on 2019-February-10, 00:07, said:

Even with a square 12 GIB should skip the quantitative and just bid 6 (20-21 + 12 = 32-33).

I don't think a quantitative invite with 12 flat is unreasonable. If all declarers on BBO were to play like Meck or Bessis then lower the invite to 11, but I see no good reason to eliminate it - just don't make it with shapely hands.
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#7 User is online   johnu 

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Posted 2019-February-10, 06:18

View Postzhasbeen, on 2019-February-10, 00:07, said:

This 4NT bid is in the critical error category--not just a minor misbid. Even with a square 12 GIB should skip the quantitative and just bid 6 (20-21 + 12 = 32-33). With the diamond suit as it is, it should be considering a grand.

Would it be unlucky if 2NT opener had 20 HCP and you are missing 2 aces or a critical error? B-)
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#8 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2019-February-10, 14:02

GIB doesn't have a way to transfer to diamonds. I think Stayman followed by 4 is the normal way to bid this hand.

But I am not sure if this helps yourself and partner more than it helps opps. Probably just let the sims decide whether 6 or 6NT is better and then bid it.

OK, Gerber can do little harm, I suppose. Not for checking aces (partner is exceedingly unlikely to have zero aces) but to see if they can double 4. If so, you can then decide to bid 6 (or 5 if missing two aces).
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#9 User is offline   zhasbeen 

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Posted 2019-February-11, 10:39

View Posthelene_t, on 2019-February-10, 14:02, said:

GIB doesn't have a way to transfer to diamonds. I think Stayman followed by 4 is the normal way to bid this hand.

But I am not sure if this helps yourself and partner more than it helps opps. Probably just let the sims decide whether 6 or 6NT is better and then bid it.

OK, Gerber can do little harm, I suppose. Not for checking aces (partner is exceedingly unlikely to have zero aces) but to see if they can double 4. If so, you can then decide to bid 6 (or 5 if missing two aces).


I'm with the Gerber bidders all the way, and as you say, it costs nothing to find out about the off chance you could be missing 2 aces (and have the defense cash them both with one in each hand). I'm not letting GIB off on quantitative with this hand, however.
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#10 User is offline   wbartley 

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Posted 2019-February-20, 18:43

In case anyone is interested. With North holding the given cards and South holding a 20-21 balanced hand, 6N makes 97% of the time.

This means that the odds of you being off two aces are so small as to possibly make asking for aces before bidding 6 worse than not asking, given that East might have a chance to double for the lead.

Just a thought.
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