[sceptic]

Hi Fred/Uday

How difficult is it, for the alert box to be given to the partner to use. i.e.

Opening hand bids 1 heart, then before the next player bids, an alert box is displayed for p's comments, partner either alerts or passes, then the bid box shows for the next player and it continues in this way through out the auction.

it would then allow partner to alert his or her partners bid to the opps in the same way.

so if South opened 2 clubs, North would alert or before West had the opportunity to bid

If south opened 1 heart, North would pass the alert and then if West bid 2 hearts, East would have to alert (explain) before North could bid?

I am not sure if this is feasable?

[pigpenz]

I thought that would be nice too....as far as I can tell now when i use it is always after the fact...so i am alerting as to how my bid is in relation to partners bid.

an ideal way would be to let the player alert his bid but have it only show up to opponents that way his partner couldnt take advantage of the alert procedure.

[Elianna]

pigpenz, on May 5 2005, 09:31 AM, said:

an ideal way would be to let the player alert his bid but have it only show up to opponents that way his partner couldnt take advantage of the alert procedure.

Isn't this is already what happens (except in partnership bidding)?

[pigpenz]

i dont know i have never been on the other end of the screen to see what shows up....i know in my case i hit alert and it shows up on my screen my bid is 2spades partners bid was a transfer to spades.....i havent palyed around with the bidding thing if you can click on your partners bid for explanation that would do it to it.

[Elianna]

Ok, well, I won't pose my response as a question: This already IS what happens. And you CANNOT click on your partner's bid for an explanation, the software won't allow it.

[pigpenz]

My wife and I were walking the dog and she asked me that....I noticed you alert sometimes what your bids mean when partners bids should have been alerted...she wanted to know if when partner alerts his call if you can see it, and I said I have no idea.

[BurnKryten]

I already perform these sorts of alerts with several of my partners - those I know are simply not good at disclosure. It helps to be fast on the keyboard, I just use the "chat to opps" option and describe special agreements, understandings, or past experience.

I don't think anything further is needed from the BBO side, really.

[uday]

Our philosophy is 'self alerts'.

I don't see any advantage to switching to partner-alerts. What am I missing?

[csdenmark]

uday, on May 6 2005, 03:26 PM, said:

Our philosophy is 'self alerts'.

I don't see any advantage to switching to partner-alerts.  What am I missing?

Uday here you are missing something important - the cultural dimension.

I often play pass systems(Regres/Beznazwy usually) with polish partners. It is standard for them not to alert pass-opening(13+HcP,any distribution). You see opps therefore often assumes the bid means just the opposite(<13HcP,any distribution).

When I bid 1♣ as a weak response they are getting confused and on top of that a possible rebid 1♦ of opener for Stayman. Here most opps. just leave the table.

This was just one example but there are many - in club systems too.

Just give table host the option to enable 4 seat view of alerts. That is serious bridge. Today it is not fair to play strong systems unless you have qualified opposition.

[DrTodd13]

You know how sometimes when you start Excel or Word that a little box with pop-up with a hint about how to perform some feature? I think a similar feature may be useful in BBO. Perhaps we could use the news box that we already have. Just periodically a reminder about what is alertable and what isn't would be a great educational tool for BBO users. You could even do things like example rulings from a tournament where the director got a difficult question right.

Self-alerts are the only way to go. It minimizes UI. Just educate people that strong opening passes, non-natural bids, etc. are alertable and we'll be just fine. People are so lazy...just alert anything that you know to be unusual and it's ok. You can't tell me that forcing pass players don't know that they are in the minority in the world.

[Brandal]

csdenmark, on May 6 2005, 11:44 AM, said:

uday, on May 6 2005, 03:26 PM, said:

Our philosophy is 'self alerts'.

I don't see any advantage to switching to partner-alerts.  What am I missing?

Uday here you are missing something important - the cultural dimension.

I often play pass systems(Regres/Beznazwy usually) with polish partners. It is standard for them not to alert pass-opening(13+HcP,any distribution). You see opps therefore often assumes the bid means just the opposite(<13HcP,any distribution).

When I bid 1♣ as a weak response they are getting confused and on top of that a possible rebid 1♦ of opener for Stayman. Here most opps. just leave the table.

This was just one example but there are many - in club systems too.

Just give table host the option to enable 4 seat view of alerts. That is serious bridge. Today it is not fair to play strong systems unless you have qualified opposition.

Most opps leave because it's not "enjoyable" playing
against a system they know nothing or little about,
I doubt any alert procedure would change that.

[csdenmark]

DrTodd13, on May 6 2005, 06:59 PM, said:

You know how sometimes when you start Excel or Word that a little box with pop-up with a hint about how to perform some feature?  I think a similar feature may be useful in BBO.  Perhaps we could use the news box that we already have.  Just periodically a reminder about what is alertable and what isn't would be a great educational tool for BBO users.  You could even do things like example rulings from a tournament where the director got a difficult question right.

Self-alerts are the only way to go.  It minimizes UI.  Just educate people that strong opening passes, non-natural bids, etc. are alertable and we'll be just fine.  People are so lazy...just alert anything that you know to be unusual and it's ok.  You can't tell me that forcing pass players don't know that they are in the minority in the world.

Todd if above is a commentar aimed for me this is a response. If not for me just ignore this post.

I just stated these polish systems and polish partner as an example - a bit extreme but often happening. Several of the poles don't understand a word of english and of course are unable to communicate in english themselves. German is sometimes an option but due to keyboard problems after switching into german letter settings - I mostly try to avoid german communication.

I very often need to inform opps. of their partners alerts because they are pickup partners and dont know each others interpretations - and I prefer to avoid misunderstandings. Testing misunderstandings is really what we often need to - very annoying. I therefore also often ask opps. to trace back via undo to have correct biddings from opps.

These kind of misunderstandings by opps. are often the reason for silly contracts and leaving in the middle of a game. I know the priority for Main Club features are rather low. Maybe an opening as Fred in another thread has made the suggestion that software might be modified to be able to detect leaving table in the middle of a game including an automatically reporting for misconduct. Such would certainly put a pressure on all to come to terms instead of leaving.

Sometimes I still meet old friends from ZONE. We normally talk about the feature we are really missing here on BBO is the ZONE convention card - second to none!