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The 4th Seat NT protective etc...

#1 User is offline   Dinarius 

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Posted 2019-February-01, 07:55

MPs



1. I presume you agree with my Double?
2. What do you bid opposite 2?
3. How strong is 1NT (instead of Double) in the 4th seat?
4. I play 1NT in the second seat at 15-17 with a stop. How do you distinguish between 11-14 (protective) and a genuine 1NT (15-17) overcall in the 4th seat?

Thanks.

D.
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#2 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2019-February-01, 08:24

Hi,

#1 yes, depending on agreement, the alternative may be 2NT
#2 2S, 2NT would show something like 15-17, maybe 16-18,
... on reflection going the low route with 2NT instead of the cue may work out best
#3 11-14
#4 X, followed by 1NT

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#3 User is offline   kuhchung 

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Posted 2019-February-01, 12:47

double is fine, 2NT for me now but maybe 2S is better? Don't know.

Common here is to play 1N = 11-14 over a minor and 12-16 over a major in the balance.
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#4 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2019-February-01, 12:56

View Postkuhchung, on 2019-February-01, 12:47, said:

<snip>
Common here is to play 1N = 11-14 over a minor and 12-16 over a major in the balance.

I would say, this is local expert praxis here as well, 11-14 regard less being standard,
since I only play infrequent, we will keep it, better to know, what you play.
If 1NT would have been 12-16 over a major, this would make 2NT a stand out.
The given seq. is most likely part of the reason, why 12-16 is played.
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#5 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2019-February-01, 13:49

1. Agree with the double.
2. If the bidding had progressed where a 1 NT rebid was available (not in this case), that would show a 15-17 NT hand. Then double followed by 2 NT would show the hand you have 18-20 NT. Unfortunately that couldn't happen. I think the best you can do is simply bid 2 NT which is less distinctly defined. If opener has an 11 HCP count, that would account for 30 HCP between your hand and opener. That leaves about 10 points to be split between partner's and opener's partner. If those split evenly, then game isn't exactly assured. If partner somehow finds a 3 NT call, you won't be displeased, but you don't want to bid 3 NT and find partner with a yarborough.
3. 11-14 is pretty standard here.
4. Double followed by 1 NT bid.
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#6 User is offline   Dinarius 

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Posted 2019-February-01, 14:01

Thanks for the replies.

I disagree that it’s “less distinctly defined”.

Bearing in mind that I have *forced* partner to bid (and with me looking at A, K, in opener’s suit, he was never going to reply 1NT) a rebid of 2NT opposite a (unlikely, I’ll admit) possible Yarborough must surely show 19/20. No?

D.
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#7 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2019-February-01, 15:06

2mt now obviously but I think this shows a stronger had. I should have bid 2nt in the previous round.
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#8 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

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Posted 2019-February-01, 17:11

"Double followed by 1nt bid" is not going to be possible when balancing over 1s, if the opps aren't going to allow insufficient bids.
So you are going to have to rebid 2nt in some cases. Which is why balancing over a major is often played wider range and stronger, 12-16, since rebidding 2nt opposite a possibly weak hand with only 15 is going to be unpalatable.
So double followed by 2nt is something like 17-18, jumping directly to 2nt can be 19-20
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#9 User is offline   ahydra 

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Posted 2019-February-01, 21:45

It's quite common to play a balancing 1NT as 11-14, X-then-1NT as 15-17 and direct jump to 2NT as 18-19. (Strong bal hands come up a lot after (1x)-p-(p), which is why people ditch the UNT there.) So this hand would start with a direct jump to 2NT. Having decided to X instead, I'll just correct to 2NT now.

ahydra
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#10 User is offline   pes_6 

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Posted 2019-February-02, 02:14

1. Double is fine ; 2. 2 response, all other is, for me, too weak ; 3. and 4. Overcall 1nt on opponent open 1 in suit is, for me, always 15-18 with 2+ stoppers (in opponent suit of course).
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#11 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2019-February-02, 20:43

Sir,there are the following possibilities when doubling the 1S -p-p-?.We have 19 HCP and that is what is causing the problem unless one has a satisfactory understanding.Granted that RHO can not have 6HCP,even then we do not know for certain how many LHO has.At this vulnerability he can not have a weak hand AND a 6+ spade suit as he would have started with 2S with a sub minimum hand .So he will have 11+HCP. That accounts for at least 30 HCP.We do not have a useful good 6+good suit ,the hearts are open and basically the hand is NT oriented.Now we find that this hand has only ONLY 4 winners.Considering the LTC of this hand which is SEVEN,We do not have any prospects of making a game unless our P has A long heart suit and say 8/9 decent HCP as he would have bid 3 Heart or on some other hand say 3C/D. I ,personally feel that in such a situation the good old HERBERT response may perhaps help us better.I am sorry I can't suggest any other other way out as one has to keep in mind that possibly most of the high cards eg HAKQ DKJ AND CKQ may be with LHO.(who knows, he may be having more than 11 HCP).
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#12 User is offline   miamijd 

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Posted 2019-February-03, 02:27

1. No, I don't agree with X. I would bid 2NT, a great 18 to 20 or so. If you X, what are you going to do next round?

2. What do I do over 2H? Well, this is why you bid 2NT; you have a problem. I guess I bid 2NT now.

3. 1NT after a 1S opener is about 12-16. Over a 1m opener, it's 11-14.

4. Over 1m, you X and bid 1NT with a decent 15 to 18 or so. Over 1S, however, you aren't going to be able to bid 1NT. So 1NT becomes 12-16; X and bid 2NT is 17-18 (if your partner is totally bare, then opener may bid over 1NT). A jump to 2NT immediately is 18+ - 20 or so.
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#13 User is offline   kontoleon 

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Posted 2019-February-04, 06:52

I really agree with x 1nt show 15-17 with s control(just normally 1nt) or 16-18(medium power) so I completelly agree with x the main proplem with 2h was that he may have 0 points so I and nothing garandee fit so I replay 2nt and I throw the ball to my partner. If he had long 5 beards He/she can go 3h or 4h if had 4 may go pass or 3nt (if had at least 6 points)

I mean is possible to open with 13 points or lighter and his partner have lowest than 6 points so 40 total-19-13*(and maybe 11 or 10 if was light) =8+

If have opening with hand like 16 or even worst 18+ we have at least half points so must not going much down the 2nt anyway
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#14 User is offline   kontoleon 

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Posted 2019-February-04, 07:07

I really agree with x 1nt show 15-17 with s control(just normally 1nt) or 16-18(medium power) so I completelly agree with x the main proplem with 2h was that he may have 0 points so I and nothing garandee fit so I replay 2nt and I throw the ball to my partner. If he had long 5 beards He/she can go 3h or 4h if had 4 may go pass or 3nt (if had at least 6 points)
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#15 User is offline   kontoleon 

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Posted 2019-February-04, 07:07

Pff mobile and forum is not with my. Plz delete my over messege tnx you and sorry
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